David: 0:02

Welcome to this new episode of Before the Applause with me your host, David Watson. In this episode, I talk to Magnus Hastings, photographer to the stars on one of the world's most celebrated visual creatives. From Todrick Hall, Boy George, Luke Evans and Demi Lovato to even President Bill Clinton, Magnus has captured icons of pop culture and politics and, most notably, many of the world's most iconic drag superstars. Magnus shares how a dream of acting gave way to a self-taught journey behind the camera and ultimately becoming a key figure in the drag and LGBTQ plus communities. He discusses the evolution of his work, the challenges of imposter syndrome and the impact of social media on the art of photography. We deep dive into his time as celebrity photographer at RuPaul's Drag Race, with Magnus revealing the challenges and surprises he faced during filming and what really happened. Magnus has spent a lifetime capturing others in their fiercest truth while quietly, brilliantly finding the light himself. Grab a cup of something nice and join us as we discover more. Before the applause Magnus Hastings Am I on? Am I live? Yes, you're live.

Magnus: 1:18

How are you doing? Oh, I'm good, I'm fine. I'm delirious from a little sleep in LA, but I'm fine.

David: 1:27

It's the lifestyle you have, isn't it? Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate you taking the time out because I know you're a busy, busy guy. You're doing moving house, creating amazing artwork but I've been looking forward to doing this with you because I feel there's lots for us to talk about. You have a lot of great stories and a lot of wisdom to share with people. So thank you very much. You're welcome. My pleasure. So you're a pretty well-known photographer. You've graced lots of magazines vogue, glamour, attitude boys. You've had exhibitions, you've done major billboards, you've been on the tv, you're everywhere. You're a social influencer with thousands and thousands of followers. But I didn't realize how much of a following you had and I know you're very modest until I got the opportunity to work with you and then I saw it in action and it was amazing and but you don't often really recognise that it freaks you out.

Magnus: 2:27

I mean also, I live in LA, where it's like influencer city. So if you're talking about kind of social media following, what have I got? 60-odd thousand and people. That seems like nothing. It's an insignificant nonsense number because I'm in LA. When you go to London, oh shit, it's quite a a lot. But yeah, it's one of the reasons I'm leaving la is I'm kind of I'm exhausted with living, with influences and and that whole vibe. It's just a lot, a lot of entitlement and a lot of nonsense. It means nothing, only I'm surrounded by it. But then the amount if you go to the gym and everyone's got a tripod set.

David: 3:08

Oh, that's annoying.

Magnus: 3:09

I've gone right off topic, haven't I? Okay.

David: 3:12

No, but the point. The point is the reason why I mentioned that is because your work is really well known. Some people might not know your name, but they've definitely seen your images. You are everywhere and I think on your website. I think you describe yourself you've got an obsession with drag queens, but actually you photograph much more than drag queens you have, and you're known for that, aren't you?

Magnus: 3:35

Yeah, I mean it was because drag was the thing I used to say. It was like the mothership calling me home, and so that drag was my thing. That got me known but and also I was obsessed with it. But then it became more and more about the whole queer community. I mean, my first exhibition had a mixture of people, but it was just.

Magnus: 3:54

I just thought people weren't really doing drag and they weren't doing it the way I was photographing it and they definitely weren't doing it how I photograph it. There they are now Right. What is it? The immigration for greats full of factory. So I kind of went into that and it was also me working that out for myself because I was. I was like a little drag child and wearing my sister's clothes, my mum's clothes, and then I was kind of shamed out of it, so it felt like my way of doing. And then I grew to of shamed out of it, so it felt like my way of doing. And then I grew to six foot four and I just felt like I looked terrible in drag it was a whole thing, so I went if I'm going to do drag, I have to look.

Magnus: 4:32

I had to be look in those days. In my head I had to look like the most beautiful woman rather than just an incredible drag queen. So I was my way of doing it. So photographing it was always my expression of my little drag child and then it evolved more and more. I mean, the more I got involved in the gay scene, the more political I got, the more I wanted to incorporate everything.

Magnus: 4:56

After why I dragged my first book then it was rainbow revolution or gay face was the project, and that was much. That was very much intentionally moving into more, a broader spectrum of all, all inclusive spectrum of everyone trans, leather, everything. So, yeah, so, but I'm well so and that became very well known. There's a generation, yeah, who know me really for all the gay face stuff, for the white box, they, they don't really. It's funny. I remember going on Reddit and seeing people saying things like but I've been quite lucky when I've gone on and Googled myself and looked around and I've never found anything terrible. But I did have someone going you could clean the fucking box.

David: 5:42

To be fair, when we did it, we were like God, we've got to clean the box. To be fair, when we did it, we were like God, we've got to clean the box.

Magnus: 5:47

I told you, I told you how dirty it was going to get. No one listened.

David: 5:54

So this is where you're known, this is where you're working, but for the audience and I know you're being sceptical that no one knows you, but they do I'd like to explore going backwards. So from the start. How did you even get into photography? Was it a passion as a child? Where? What was the journey?

Magnus: 6:11

yeah, well, my dad was a barrister but he also had a dark room and was a photo. It was like a semi-professional photographer so he had lots of his stuff had been published and but he so he had this dark room. So when I was a child I would go in there and watch him developing pictures and it was always a very beautiful women and I just it was like a magical thing watching these images appear through the chemicals and I just kind of fell in love with it and it's also that instant thing. I mean, I've always been interested in portraits, never in kind of inanimate objects or in. It's always just been about people. But I kind of basically I taught myself. So when he packed all his stuff away and I lived with my mom and then I got all his old enlarging equipment and I turned my bedroom into a dark room there's so many gay jokes in all of this and I just basically taught myself photography.

Magnus: 7:05

I I kind of would play around, of course, one of those people who would never read a book, never do a class. I just just played around until I worked it out. So I would. I remember I was taking pictures using kind of normal lights, like a bedside lamp light. And then, of course, the tones were terrible, especially when you were doing it, printing with paper, because you couldn't fix it all in post on a computer. You couldn't change the tint, so they would never come out right. So I was doing all these black and white pictures and then I remember the day I did a picture of a friend and it suddenly was the tones I wanted. So I just it was all trial and error and teaching myself.

Magnus: 7:45

And then I went to Chelsea art school, but I didn't study photography, but I used to go and just use the dark books and just do my own thing. I was studying textiles and graphics, but always wanted to be an actor anyway. No, I wanted to be an actor and I got into Chelsea so I could drop my A levels and go to art school to pacify my mother, because I'd never do any homework and we'd have an argument. So I got into art school by the skip, I don't know how, because I was terrible at life drawing. I was good at some stuff did that.

Magnus: 8:16

But I wanted to go to drama school, which I then did. But anyway, so I was self-taught and yeah, so it was all just, I just worked it out. So basically I then became. I went to drama school, became an actor and was just. I was basically too tall to be an actor. I'd make other men look tiny and I'd make women look great. But it was. So. You can never. I'd never. The one movie I did I had to sit, I was leaning or sitting through the whole thing, not telling the name of the movie.

David: 8:45

No one should ever see it.

Magnus: 8:46

I'll get it out of you one day. Oh my God, I had to do a set scene on my first day as well. You just see my 28 year old bum, anyway. So so when I was so, I was acting and then I realized that I was done with it. I was just sick of other people deciding when I worked too tall. And I called my agent and said and I was, oh, so I taught myself. I started doing headshots under another name because I didn't want to be known as an actor who did headshots, because it's such a cliche. So I stopped acting and threw myself into headshots and I became like the top three headshot photographer in England. It was like insane.

Magnus: 9:22

And then I walked into a place that a bar, the box in London that I used to go to, that had queer exhibitions and I just said, can I have an exhibition? And they went, well, I said, do you need to see anything on my work? And I showed them something and they went oh, okay, yeah. So I went in there and then I shot the local like the queer famous people, if you know what I mean. So it was like a celebrity exhibition within the tiny big fish, small pond scenario. So it was quite clever because everyone who came into the bar kind of knew the people on the walls and they were the ones. They were all the fab ones. So I had two drag queens in there and I had various people, but I basically printed them in a way that we went back to with you. So I printed them on matte paper and pressed them onto pvc, but going to the back door of some printers in the east end and they did them doing it for cash. And then I hand varnished them and they were really big and I put them up in this thing and I just remember looking at them going, fuck, I don't know, I like them. Who knows what's going to happen, but I think it's great. And then the next day that was 11 at night and then the next day everyone went crazy for it and Time Out. They had their offices nearby and they saw it and they made me the pick of the week or something. It was just crazy. It was like okay, and then all the big gay magazines came immediately started using me for covers and to shoot celebrity stuff and also because I was at the time there was a photographer called JF who was the main guy and he always did that Herb Ritzy, black and white. It was all black and white buff men and I came in and started to bring in colourful, colourful camp. I put the drag queen, I think, on the cover of QX for the first time ever. I don't know, but I just brought that thing Because at the time everyone was going on about being straight acting and you'd go to the bars and everyone was like, and I remember doing that but it was like, how straight do you look with a cock in your mouth?

Magnus: 11:33

I mean so annoying and so. But I remember getting one guy and shooting him in a line in bananas with a. He was very handsome but I had him like with a banana in his mouth and the whole point was to kind of doing something really classically feminine, 70s feminine, but with this guy and he was lying in bananas and it was on the cover of qx, and I remember walking to barcode and seeing someone pick it up and go and throw it across the room because they hated it that, because it was so gay, and I loved it and I thought, perfect, that's exactly what I want to do. And so then I became suddenly, I basically nicked all of JF's work and everything shifted towards my aesthetic, which was draggy and campy and colorful and it kind of. And it just went crazy from there and I was working really quickly and being used for stuff and then I built up my portfolio. Boys came to me and said right, will you? We've got very little budget, but will you shoot our covers, celebrity covers and stories and you can use the studio that we have for yourself whenever you want, we'll give you. I think they were giving you like a hundred quid or something to do it. And so I said yes.

Magnus: 12:46

And then I decided Girls Aloud. I did Sugar Babes. I was given all of these people. I mean, I remember getting Girls Aloud and going right and I'd always do things with people so I wanted to put them all as dolls in a doll box in doll boxes and I've seen so tired now, especially after the barbie promotion, but basically it was kind of cool. At the time only I had I had a one doll box built in wood that now I look at it it just looks like a coffin. So and then I sort of had to put it together and it was. But it was amazing and they were thrilled with it. It was just fun, it was just creating stuff. I mean, looking back, I always had to do. I wouldn't just take nice pictures, I'd do something with people.

Magnus: 13:27

Yeah, like I was going to make emma bunton uh, what was I making her? I was making her a fairy in a, in a music box, like on there, and then she cancelled the day before and I ended up having doing it, doing a drag queen in there. And then I was also the one I was looking forward to was I was doing Jordan or Katie Price for Christmas with Peter Andre and I was going to have her giving birth. I think was she pregnant? I was going to have her.

Magnus: 13:54

So her legs, him looking between her legs, with a celestial leg coming to her face in a manger, I mean you could tell I was using drugs at the time in a manger. I mean you could tell I was using drugs at the time, anyway, in a manger, and anyway that didn't happen. I can't remember why, but it didn't happen. But yeah, it was amazing. I was given free reign and really good people, and then I would, for instance, with, I think with Garth no, it was. I then went, oh, went, oh god, I'm gonna, and I also I only started off only shooting natural light. I mean I didn't when I said I taught myself in college, but I was. I then got obsessed with natural light so I never used.

Magnus: 14:32

I used reflectors and natural light wow but then I was suddenly shooting professionally, going well, I'm gonna have to throw a light in sometimes because it depends on the situation if I'm in a studio, whatever. So I would go and I did. I found a course like a two-day weekend course in the place in Brixton and I went there to do one day before I did Girls Aloud because I got really nervous going fuck, this is a big one and I've got, I've got to like this. So so I went and I did day one of the course and they gave you homework to kind of photograph your dog or do whatever. And I and after and I thought, well, I can't, I haven't got time to do their exercises because I'm shooting girls aloud on Tuesday or something. So I thought, and I also can't come back and go, no, I shot girls aloud testing. So I just did the one day and it worked.

Magnus: 15:22

It was like checking that my idea of what I should be doing was right, because my instincts tended to be wrong. But I wanted to double check and, to be fair, it is my biggest, not regret, but my biggest insecurity and my imposter syndrome thing comes from being untrained and wishing that I had. I wish I'd not gone to train but been. When I was younger, my dad tried to set me up to be. He was friends with what's he called Terry Donovan, daisy Donovan's dad, who's a huge photographer, like a David Bailey type photographer, and he was going to try and set me up as his assistant. But at the time I thought no, I want to be an actor. So I said no, and that would have his assistant. But at the time I thought no, I want to be an actor. So I said no and that would have been insane.

David: 16:08

But even at this point, with everything you have done and the amazing books and exhibitions and images you've created, do you still feel that imposter syndrome?

Magnus: 16:18

Yeah, oh my God, it's a huge. Oh yeah, I used to. I made a joke about I want to do like before I die. I have a book of all of my favorite things called A Lifetime of Lucky Shots is the name of my book, but it's of course, then you have to sit back and go.

Magnus: 16:36

Well, you get your shot every time, so it's not lucky shots, so you need. But yeah, I have an insane imposter syndrome. But all the time, yeah, I get nervous for every shoot. I mean, that day we were shooting when I was in liverpool with you and we're shooting at both times, shooting the liverpool queens. I'm scouting in the morning and I was like I don't know where the where's the light. I didn't know what, because I had to. I mean, I'm so glad I settled on that alley but because it's but that's the thing rather than going trust, calm, you're going to find it, because you always do I was going.

Magnus: 17:12

I can do a bit there and do a bit, cause I wind myself up into this crazy and the same with Danny, danny Beard. But also, to be fair, I was so tired from that day in the alley I was like my body body was it was weird jet, lagged and exhausted. And I went in there and I remember with when danny walked in I was like I actually don't know what to do. I don't know, my brain isn't functioning. And then I had a little talk with myself when danny said I've had this specially made. I thought he's had something specially made. Pull your shit together. This is the most important thing. So we got something amazing, but it's also. Once the camera's in my hand, I'm fine, but it's just the buildup. I tend myself send myself into crazy tale always.

David: 18:00

The point of this podcast is about before the applause, so before the shot in your instance. So you have just started talking about the whole process before the image is captured, and I don't think people necessarily truly get what you have to think about and all the insecurities and composing ideas in your head. And that's an extraordinary thing to do, because taking an image is not just taking an image.

Magnus: 18:24

Well, you have. I mean, the funny thing that people get is, for instance, they'll, they'll show you a picture and they'll go can we do this right? And you go. You do understand that this is the best shot in a shoot where they were trying different things and that moment happened. They didn't go in, going. We want that, yeah, you. So you, you have to go. Yeah, we can take that idea. Unless you're doing so, you're absolutely doing something, copying something, and then it always annoys me because people never do it properly. They never get the back bend right or the this right, because there are always these amazing images that people want you're very demanding.

David: 19:00

I've seen it in action. No, but if you're gonna do, going to do it get it right.

Magnus: 19:04

What did I just say? It's like oh, I once did a version. It's a really old, famous picture of Yoko Ono and John Lennon and they're naked and he's in a yoga thing. It was a cover of Rolling Stone and he's yoga wrapped around her and I've seen so many people. It's an iconic Annie leibovitz image and I've seen so many people try and recreate it and because their person is never flexible enough, it always looks like shit and I did it like, if you can't, if they can't get their leg where they're supposed to get it, why are you doing it?

Magnus: 19:39

of course, when I did it, obviously you nailed it because I wouldn't, I would have gone, but then I did have Farrah being Farrah Fawcett and she and she couldn't get the bend.

David: 19:50

It was like, oh, okay it's just so much more to photography and creating that moment and capturing that single moment in, like you say, hours of shooting yeah and I actually think your brain is way more sophisticated than you give yourself credit for dreaming up all these things when you're shooting.

Magnus: 20:08

That's why it's really hard when someone starts barking from that, like if someone starts trying to direct when they're on someone, when they're not, you're holding your camera and you're looking, and then someone starts faffing around in the side trying to direct people.

Magnus: 20:21

I had a makeup artist once directing people and I sent them out of the room. I got a round of applause, to be fair, from the people there but no, it's, but they can't. It's for me, I'm going on a journey, it's like. So I start taking pictures, I'm already thinking two steps ahead, so but you're moving fluidly through something, so I'm moving you around, I'm trying different things, I shoot really fast, I'm throwing myself around and it's about instinctive moments. So when people start breaking that thought process, it's really hard because you're kind of stopped. And then, if you're in a professional job, you don't want to shout fuck off at people or shut up. I mean, I do shut it down, but sometimes you have to kind of try it and then, especially if it's not when it doesn't work, when somebody's trying something and they don't know, it's like just shut up, shut up.

David: 21:14

Me, by the way.

Magnus: 21:15

Much easier, unless I stop and go any ideas, then chime in, then Try that. You know what I mean.

David: 21:21

That's the but it is definitely, um, obviously I've worked with you now, which is amazing, and watching you work it is like choreography, and so you describe the way you feel inwardly, but it doesn't feel like that when you're in your studio with you. When you're in your head, you're panicking.

Magnus: 21:36

You got it looks like you're in control oh no, everyone thinks I'm really in my element.

Magnus: 21:42

No, I am in my no, but, as I said, when I pick up my camera it kind of goes. I remember so I was an actor and I used to get paralysed with nerves. And then when I did my one of the first jobs I did it was a QX cover and there was the guy he was filming for he was opening the new club which was then called Too, too Much. And I had to do this cover and it was about 14 people. I had to create, compose and shoot. He said to me before oh, by the way, we've got a Channel 4 crew coming in shooting this whole thing. And I said I get really, really nervous. I was just, I just packed in acting. I said I get absolutely terrified in front of cameras. It'll throw me off, I don't want the camera anywhere near me. And he went or was it demanding already? And he said he, or is it demanding already? And he said he said, say all this on camera, throw them out on camera. I went no, I'm not going to create a scene, I just want to do the job. So please don't have them near me because I'll, I'll, it'll fuck me up Anyway.

Magnus: 22:44

So then I saw the crew were there, they stayed away from me. And then halfway through the lunch break I said to one of the camera guy or something I said thank you for doing that. That's been great, it really helped me. And then I was taking the pictures. Later on I was there taking pictures and I suddenly realized for the last 10 minutes the camera had been here and I hadn't even noticed because I was work. So the difference between acting and taking pictures, it was it's. But then they tried to film me going through the pictures. Oh, God.

Magnus: 23:16

And I was like, oh, or it couldn't be on camera because it was. It was because then I'm so worried about how I'm perceived. But when I've got my camera in my hand I'm taking a shit because I'm so it's like side note. When I've shot really like porn stars or really hot men and things like that, people go, oh, do you ever hook up with them things? And I'm like, no, because when I'm working it's not even. It's so not about that, it's about I mean, afterwards occasionally I've gone fuck, I missed, I did miss those cues, but it was. It's so about what I'm doing and it doesn't come into it and over the years, you've honed your style.

David: 23:56

You've done so many projects, and something that I know people struggle with is finding the right partners and collaborators, and I wondered if you could just talk about your journey with collaborate, whether it's makeup artists or fashion designers, because I know it's quite a complex area.

Magnus: 24:12

Well, because I got huge and my big thing was drag. So I don't have a Rolodex filled with stylists and makeup artists and I always forget people's names, but no, because I've always had. So drag queens do their own makeup and when I've had experience when someone has been pushed into using a makeup artist and then they've ruined For instance, I did two album covers for Nina West and her management demanded a makeup artist and I was like, but drag queens have their own thing that they do. So unless you're collaborating with the makeup artist, you're going to completely and, lo and behold, didn't look anything like her and so so and same with pearl. I remember pearl got signed to wilhelmina and pearl's face came from a cartoon she used to draw. It's a specific look and then in wilhelmina they just got a normal makeup artist to make her up normally and it didn't look like Pearl. So yeah, it was that thing of I've done so much drag stuff that I'm very lucky in terms of I work with exceptional drag queens who also have a very polished and good at their look. I mean, I have had to. Actually, talking of Pearl, one of the ones I did with her, I turned up, we were both hungover. I turned up hungover. She'd Actually talking of Pearl, one of the ones I did with her.

Magnus: 25:36

I turned up. We were both hungover. I turned up hungover. She'd been up all night and beard was coming through. She'd slapped on makeup but I had spent days taking out stubble from this fucking picture because she was just wrecked from the night before and I've done that a few. You know you have to repair things. Drag is an art form and I don't like completely obliterating it.

David: 25:55

Yeah.

Magnus: 25:55

It's like in the cover of why Drag? You can see Courtney's lace front a little bit, because I want it to be about. For instance, if you see Courtney in real life, she's phenomenally, she's that perfection. And then you get in and you can see a wig line or you can see something, because that's the art of drag. If you airbrush it all out, where's the art? Art? It's not there. Or the worst is when people are wearing boot plates and they people airbrush out the joins so they just look like they've got a big pair of rubber tits sitting on them, whereas at least you get the armhole or whatever. It's kind of got a sense of humor about it for me and I think that's what stands out about your work.

David: 26:36

You can see that you're still trying to reveal the artistry and the creativity and definitely when I was watching you work and we were discussing with all of the queens who worked for the newport, you were very clear. I'm not polishing your face out I did a little bit.

Magnus: 26:49

No, there's certain people in that bit. I mean I do occasionally or if someone's got bad skin, or something like that.

David: 26:55

But it's nothing extreme, is it? You don't do anything extreme.

Magnus: 26:59

No, they're not where it's just gone, because they're also used to sticking their faces through some blurry hideous. I mean, I have done. I just did a big shoot with Courtney. She's doing a podcast and a few a month ago I shot her here for that, for the posters and stuff, and I thought, oh well, suck it up, I'll just do a full-on retouch, because that's the other posters for the company. The company there's like the same company as um william and alaska's podcast okay, yeah uh, mom, it's not mom anyway, but they're all.

Magnus: 27:29

They're very retouched, the posters normally. So I did a full-on retouch, plus courtney's been working out, so she's, she's got her. She's got this incredible body. But you sacrifice that. She looks sometimes quite bruiser in her drag and so I was kind of tweaking and pulling around and, to courtney's credit, she said can you pull most of that off afterwards? And she looked because she wanted to. It was and it wasn't. I just pulled. She wanted to see a few lines and things like that. Amazing, I'm not what I'm used to and not what you see most of the time.

David: 28:03

Yeah, everyone's got filters on Instagram.

Magnus: 28:05

No, and I had Michelle Visage once saying yeah, but of course you barely retouch or something to me. And I'm like course you barely retouch or something to me. And I'm like, I fucking do retouch. And also, you're not a drag queen, michelle, I'm not taking out your.

David: 28:17

Anyway, she does wear lace but I think, isn't this that's the result of social media and digital and perfection, and you've already mentioned it, hollywood has a big part to play in creating that filter on everybody well, now people try and have surgery to look.

Magnus: 28:34

That's what's so depressing. Is people having surgery to look like their, their instagram? I mean, I was, when I worked with gg, gorgeous. I knew there's certain things she wanted. She already looks like an instagram post. She's this perfect face. She had lots of work done but it was like, okay, I've got to make lollipop head, I've got to do those things that you just go. How thin do you need? How? Or how kind of like a doll do you need to look?

David: 28:59

You already mentioned where you are. You live in Weho, west Hollywood. So working in Hollywood versus the UK, what's the difference? Do you enjoy it? Because it is very different. What's the difference.

Magnus: 29:11

Do you enjoy it? Because it is very different, isn't it? I mean, since COVID it's been very weird. So I was nonstop till COVID and COVID kind of screwed LA up as well. So the whole thing is I did yeah, I loved it because I was in because of also, I was doing my drag book I was in the centre of all things drag. So I have access to one of the biggest queens in the world and the other ones come. If they don't live here, they come through here, obviously. I mean it's especially I guess I'm much as I'm not the influencer thing I've been in the middle of it and have access to all of these people. So that's like my second book has a lot of info.

Magnus: 29:47

I mean, when I was the, the gay face project was about was conceived as a, as a social media project where I shot all of all the spectrum of queer people, but then everyone dropped their image at the same day, on the same time. I did 120 people in secret and then it was fun because it was people being invited. They were told not to say anything, so everyone wanted to be invited to do it, and then I but again, this is my imposter thing I was like I didn't let anyone see their images because I didn't want it to be leaked. I didn't want someone to post it because they weren't thinking and then ruin the whole thing because I'd never seen it happen. But I wanted to do this surprise drop and see it appear from nowhere. So but I was then picking people. So I'd have someone like tripsy with five million followers and then I'd have the this, an incredible lesbian barber with three followers. You know what I mean. So you just, it was about getting the cross-section but being strategic in who. So the drag queens I tended to have in the original drop were all super famous because I needed that reach. And then I got people. I got james charles in there and I got I don't know, I was reaching out, there were some influencers, because I needed that reach. And then I got people, I got James Charles in it and I got I don't know, I was reaching out, there were some influencers. So I'm in the middle of that, but I don't feel like that anymore. I feel like it's all changed and, as I say, I'm sober now and I don't go out.

Magnus: 31:06

Half of the job was being out in the middle of everything. I'd meet people and then we'd arrange to shoot off our faces. So I was always off my face in a bar and chatting to people. I remember once I got a call from a girl saying are we doing that shoot? And I said yeah, yeah, but I'm going to charge you. And she went. I said yeah, yeah, but I'm going to charge you. And she went yeah, I'm all right with that, but you did offer to shoot me, this hideous drunken mess. But I mean anyway.

Magnus: 31:43

But so now it feels different because I don't. I feel like not, I've aged it. Well, maybe I've aged out. I'm not playing that game anymore. I'm not interested in it. There are also so many young photographers all coming for my gig and doing it free and good luck, and I'm bored with. I mean. I do watch the new seasons of Drag Race, but it's just so repetitive and boring. And there's the odd one in there, but it's. You know the good old days. What's the odd one in there? But it's. Then you know the good old days. What's the thing? The quote, you've got to watch season six, but it's. There's that element of of drag, with queens who had done drag for years, not on tv or not watching youtube videos. They earned their stripes and they came on and they were diverse and interesting and now it's just like a rotation.

David: 32:35

There's a lot of seasons, isn't there the US version?

Magnus: 32:37

No, there's well. Now they're on 17. Wow, because also they have. I mean, the English one is actually more fun for lots of us now here, because it's at least got that sassy English, often Northern humour.

David: 32:51

And the campness, and it's a different type of UK drag.

Magnus: 32:53

It's polished but it's less polished and it feels more like the height of the good seasons of Drag Race here. Up to about what was I on? I was on seven, so up to eight, but then it all went right down.

David: 33:09

Well, the reason why Magnus is saying that? Because you were a photographer on Drag Race.

Magnus: 33:14

Yeah, but I blew it with World of Wonder because the Drag Race story is, I just had my show in New York which led to my book, and so I think I'd got my book deal. But the show had gone crazy in New York so everyone was talking about it. I was very now well-known in drag world and had built this thing up and they came to me and said would you be on the guest photographer on season seven? And Mike Ruiz had just fallen out with Ru. So I said, yeah, am I going to be judging? No, you're not going to be judging. Okay, so you're going to be announced in the workroom. You're going to, we're going to judge off your pictures and you'll be doing the mini challenge. And I'm like, okay, fine, but don't make me insignificant. I said, because I've just built this thing up and I don't want to just be whatever, no, we won't back to the forward.

Magnus: 34:08

So I filmed the thing. I mean then I retrospect I was a bit of a nightmare, but they filmed it. And then at one point, first of all, I walked in and there was me and I was supposed to do these pictures at the end of a runway. So it was a challenge where Violet spun around and had that tartan outfit on. So I was stuck at the end of the runway. So I went oh, tartan outfit on, um. So I stuck at the end of the runway. So I went oh, okay, with loads of extras around me with pretend cameras flashing. So I went. So you're making me a paparazzi? Okay, fine. So I'm sitting there. And then they wouldn't give me a list of names, so I had no names, didn't know who was coming out. I think the only person that I'd heard I'd heard of pearl. I would miss fame, and that was it met.

Magnus: 34:51

I met the producers on the day and they said, oh, they asked to mic me. They went oh, tall English guy, this would be fun, let's get him on mic. And I went, okay. But I was at the end of a runway with no one to interact with. So I was on hot mic talking to myself, complaining, you complain to myself, complaining, you complain. At one point they said you've got to keep, and I had this special flash going on like that was my own kit, and they said well, you've got to keep that going off. And I was mumbling I'm not fucking breaking my kit, this fucking gig. I mean I talk to myself all the time.

Magnus: 35:25

Then I went for lunch and I was sitting there still feel badmouthing and moaning and sort of talking about I don't know, and then they took the mic off me and I thought, okay, fine, and then I shut the thing and then afterwards they said, right, we want to do a big interview with you because the producers really like you. And then they said so we. And then one of the producers said I'd love to get you as a permanent person on here, so this is kind of your audition in, right. And I'm going oh my god. And then they said okay, so talk about all the queens. Remember, I have no names. No folks, they took my card out, so I've got no photos. No names, talk about all the queens. So they go, I go, okay.

Magnus: 36:08

They go Ginger Minj, and I go who's that? And so they try and describe her and I go okay, but remember, I'm taking photos, trying to get a good shot. I'm not going, what's she wearing? I'm just trying to get this moment, because they're doing a runway, they're not stopping for me, they're turning at the end and I'm getting this shot. And so I'm going who's that?

Magnus: 36:36

So we're going backwards and forwards for an hour and I kept looking into camera by mistake, and then they said say something negative and something positive. And I went no, I'm not going to say this is my bread and butter. All of these girls shoot with me. I'm not going to start being rude if I don't have a permanent gig here, being rude about all of the people. I mean in hindsight who gives a fuck. But at the time it was very I'm just getting establishing myself. I didn't want to so anyway. And then it ran out of steam because they kept trying to make me talk about more people and by the end of it I was like I didn't know. I just didn't know who, I just didn't know. So I didn't even complete the whole thing. The producer looked so disappointed Then, finally.

Magnus: 37:17

So I went to the launch the first night of the screening and they told me last minute to come and I said well, I'm booked to go to San Francisco. I'm making myself sound difficult, aren't I? I'm booked to San Francisco, you've got to be there. You're in the show and I went, okay. So then I went to the show and I sat there and then the first thing that happened was they walked into and they had been told on the day that they'd announced me in the workroom and all the girls were all excited. So they, I'm watching the show, they, they go into the workroom, I'm not announced and I thought, okay, what's going on? This doesn't look good and so cut to the whole. Then they cut to the runway and there's what there's like a quarter of a second flash onto my face going click and they have to put. They put magnus hastings, celebrity photographer. Oh, yeah that's it.

Magnus: 38:01

And I remember, and I remember in my head going don't kick off. You're at the launch party, you, you're around, everybody, do not kick off. So then I took a fat line of Coke and I kicked off, and so I was Don't do drugs, kids. Don't do drugs. I don't. That's why I'm in recovery and I'm much, much happier that way. I really am, but no, but so I then was drunk and I'd done that and I was. Then I just started to be just drunk and I'd done that and I was.

David: 38:33

Then I just started to be just. I remember seeing.

Magnus: 38:34

Pandora Box and she didn't. She said, oh, were you in it? It's like, yes, I was, but so anyway, then they didn't judge of my pictures. So I went home and I went okay, I've got to find all these emails and just go. This is not what we agreed. It all done on the phone, no emails, so there was nothing I could do. And then I sent one going. I'm really I'm sorry was just. I said I was shocked and I was embarrassed because I'd taken friends and I understand that you need to edit it down. I just wish you'd given me a heads up and told me so I didn't go there expecting one thing and seeing something else. And then they were kind of rude to me and sort of made it just a bit disrespectful and then but then I'd get drunk and be out. I'm not going to say quite right, but people would go.

Magnus: 39:14

I just basically bad mouthed the whole experience in public at viewing parties, not realising World of Wonder were there behind me hearing me, and then I saw Bianca and she said you've got to stop bad mouthing World of Wonder. And I went I'm not, she went, you are, and everyone knows. And you'rebing World of Wonder. And I went I'm not, she went, you are, and everyone knows. And you're as bad as Courtney the two of you. And I'm like okay, and so, consequently, I've never been asked back.

David: 39:41

Well, lessons learned and obviously, when you're developing your career, it's important you know what you're passionate about is important to fight for.

Magnus: 39:57

But obviously there's a way to do it. No, there's a way to do it, and it was because I was also so nervous and and and yeah, and it felt so important and yeah, it was awful, and then I and then again being drunk and wasted doesn't help anyone. Do the right thing at the right time rather than just being gracious about it now, can you edit that really long window?

David: 40:07

somehow I'll figure it out. My next question the industry is changing so much, you know, you've got everyone's a photographer social media. The days are hard, you know. People think you can get paid loads of money for photography. It doesn't always work like that. How? What motivates you to keep going because it isn't all as glorious?

Magnus: 40:27

because it's all I can do now because I'm so old. It's all I can do now Because I'm so old, it's all I can do and I'm happiest with creating my own thing. So working for other people I find difficult now and it's just. I like getting ideas and creating and that's also when I've been my most successful person and it fuels me. It's like I'll stop for a while if I've got nothing happening and then I just have to start creating something because my brain goes.

Magnus: 40:53

For years I was I mean, it was almost like yet another addiction. I would be constantly I'd be shooting and then in airports on, I'm retouching. Everywhere I went, I was constantly working on pictures. I used to go to a bar and sit there in the corner. Everyone thought I was the DJ because I was constantly working on pictures. I used to go to a bar and sit there in the corner. Everyone thought I was the DJ because I was just working on pictures, because I didn't want to just be at home, I'd just be watching telly. It fires me up because I fall in love. When I shoot something, it's intensely personal. Every single picture feels personal. I feel like I'm involved in the picture. So if something's very beautiful that I've taken. I almost feel like it makes me beautiful. Does that make sense?

David: 41:34

Yeah.

Magnus: 41:34

It's like everything is so. The attitude that I've got from people or that they're giving me feels like my story too, and so it just. It feels weird not doing it, but it's harder and harder and harder. To be honest, the AI thing's absolutely terrifying.

David: 41:55

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. What's your thoughts on this?

Magnus: 41:58

Well, because I'm learning to use AI for certain things. Not for my photography, just life for things. I mean, I was just trying to design some T-shirt with a cartoon on it and I'm doing that on and you would have an illustrator do it and now you just get in AI and you have a million options, the AI used in images. I've seen a couple of drag queens of a certain age who are friends of mine have promo posters out and it's like there's a 20-year-old can-can dancer on it with a sinewy body and it's like what the fuck is that? It's bizarre that people go. I'm running with that. I see people putting in backgrounds that are so AI. I mean you look at all the. There's so much drag-racy stuff. That's now. The girls are all ai'd everywhere, but it it, for me, takes a lot of the soul out of it. It just doesn't because they're never, they don't seem to really get, they're kind of placed in it and there's a lack of emotion and expression within it. I think, if they, maybe I'm just thinking, I haven't thought about it this hard before, but maybe getting set up Well, for instance, when I shot Safira Cristal, she propped a mirror up in front of herself, which I don't usually allow, because I want you to trust me and I don't want you looking over my head going all the time.

Magnus: 43:28

And then she suddenly wanted it taken down because she wasn't used to people, someone directing her. She was clearly used to having some whippersnapper go, click, click, do what she's told, while she's posing and doing her own thing, and she wasn't used to someone going. I mean, I was bossing her around and it threw her completely because she loved it in the end, but it threw her because she was so used to someone doing her bidding and being in control, which isn't the point. The point is a collaboration and to trust somebody, and more and more I get people trying to put a mirror and then half the pictures their fucking eyes are in the wrong place because they can't see themselves giving away control is a challenge generally, but for creativity, you know it's, it's pretty basic.

David: 44:18

101 yeah, with a photographer, take direction. Yeah, you know you wouldn't do it in a you know, even from the dance studio. Yeah, you use mirrors for yourself, but then you're taking corrections from the teachers and the ballet masters.

Magnus: 44:30

Yeah, but you're using mirrors to really get your form right, really, aren't you?

David: 44:34

Yeah, and then you step away from them. So it's interesting about that trust and that collaboration and I suppose people's they want to do it all but it's got worse.

Magnus: 44:42

The point is it's got much, much worse. The only person for years, the only person who ever asked for a mirror was manila luzon and she. But she used it well, but it was, but other than that, nobody. And then suddenly it seems to be more and more people, because they just it's. So, yeah, I think, but, as I said, I think there's people, for younger photographers are so concerned with what the shit they're going to put around it rather than getting the intention and the thought and the whatever in the, in the actual person, because, again, so far was just doing this. Like I'm saying, all the pageant queens, all are very, very static. I can spot them a mile off because they all kind of have their stock poses that they do and they're not, they're not fashioning at all, they're all kind of insert magnus placing his hands under his chin so yes no, it's such.

David: 45:37

It's interesting area and something to watch and how it evolves and I I always have faith that the people will. It will work. We will make it work for artists and creatives and we will and we'll respect more that we want the story. I'm optimistic, I'm always optimistic I mean it's, it's terrifying.

Magnus: 45:57

I mean the fact that I mean, just on a side note, I don't want to get particularly political, but living in la, and it's right now, we have driverless car cabs, right, so you have a cab in the car you're driving around, you have delivery pods where your food comes trundling in a little robot.

Magnus: 46:19

So basically every form of life-saving side hustle, like Uber Eats or any of that stuff, has been taken. Or just driving an Uber because the driverless cabs, you don't have to tip and they're just slightly cheaper than an Uber. The whole thing is about taking. Everything is being taken away and it's just. It's about. I have this. I'm obsessed with the idea of it's. They're trying to turn it into the Hunger Games. So you have Hunger Games without the Hunger Games, right? So you just have these super rich, pulled plastic surgery, fired monsters and then everyone else scrabbling for that, forced to work for minimum wage. It's terrifying. All the psychological stuff has been taken away. It's better in England, but it's crazy here. It's not a good time here.

David: 47:04

But look into the future. What are you working on now? What's in the pipeline? What are you working on now? What's in the pipeline?

Magnus: 47:11

What am I working on? I was asked to potentially bring the box back because of the current American thing, but I'm in two minds and I also as if they could fund it, but that would just be. This summer I'm supposed to be working on another book of older queer people and I've done some tests for that. My agent really wants to push that, but it's proving really hard to pin people down. I found a 93-year-old drag queen, but they wouldn't get into drag. I found a 93-year-old drag queen, but they wouldn't get into drag.

Magnus: 47:51

So I even had someone. I only wanted their face, but they wouldn't do it. So it's like it's weird. I think when people are really old they give less fucks. So it's been a struggle trying to lock people in, but it was just something different, and then that was potentially a documentary too. I've got things. I've got things. I've got things. I'm still talking to the Walker about touring. Let's make that happen, yeah.

David: 48:16

So this is about being real and about encouraging people, inspiring them to be in the creative industries. I wondered what tips would you give to anyone that wants to be a photographer? What things should they look out for? What they shouldn't do?

Magnus: 48:31

I well, my thing is always don't worry about the equipment. It's like when people go, what camera do you use? It's like it doesn't matter. It's about manipulating, like it's about ideas, it's about composition and it's about trying everything. The fact that we now have digital so you don't have rolls of film that you're wasting, you can just fucking click. So try it, try it out and throw it away. It's like when someone comes to me as a model of sorts or whatever, and they're really nervous, they say I'm so nervous. It's like, well, you know, we're not curing cancer, we're taking a fucking photo. This shit will throw it away. So it's just about trying and just play, play and try and yeah, and if you can't see light, you really haven't got it, so don't do it.

David: 49:14

So you've done lots of different projects. You've had books, shows. I wondered at this point do you have anything which you would say is a favorite project you've worked on or stand out?

Magnus: 49:24

well, my first. Well, my book, my first book, was huge for me because I planned it. I had my eye on doing a book since. I remember arriving in Sydney when I first shot the Dorothy picture, so that was 22 years ago or something, and I was already talking about my book, working on a book, and I remember one of the drag queens there laughing about it. She said, yeah, your book and all of that, and it took, albeit 10 years, but I was because I immediately went to see and I saw a publisher in England and then it was it's so funny, when I it was, I was so normal to me that I would be so horrified when I got weird responses, like she said she loved images this is my early images. But she also said so why didn't you get a psychiatrist to write, write the forward? And I went, because it's not mental illness, it's like, so I then, and then I found so I removed myself from that and then I found out she pinned up one of my pictures in her office and loved it.

Magnus: 50:28

But it was this whole, this mentality, but so so when it finally happened and when I did my so, I put together my show in New York and that I kind of it's like things have happened, things that are successful for me just happen. When I pursue things, I kind of kill it. This show in New York I'm always with my always in my eye on the idea of my book. But I got it got huge buzz about it because it was this big show of drag stuff and people go back and back and it was like it's a big deal. But I got a book deal from that and so my my agent now saw an interview with me with pictures, called me in when I was in New York and then signed me and then we got the book deal and when that book finally happened and I shot like crazy and it was so exciting and exhausting.

Magnus: 51:17

And then when I got the first draft of the book through, I remember sitting on my stairs in my old apartment on my own just going through these pictures, going, holy fuck, this is happening. It was and it was. There was only one image. I was like no, I don't really like it. I was so thrilled that I not only had this book but I really stood by all of the pictures in this. It was incredible and that and also that becoming so successful was really. I remember courtney had just released her big, she'd done this big EP and it was her she wanted to cross over and it'd be her big thing and it didn't work and she'd ploughed a lot of money and everything into it and then she said, oh well, don't you know, you don't rely on your dreams, because if it doesn't work and that was that, but it did work and it was everything and more it could possibly be it became. It became a thing. It's frustrating now that it's like, fuck me, it's nearly 10 years ago.

David: 52:15

That's just so weird but it sounds like that's special to you, not only because of what it gave you but the amount of work, so you really threw yourself into it oh, it was an insane amount of work, and it has images from.

Magnus: 52:27

It had one image that was well then. It was an insane amount of work, and it has images from. It had one image that was well then. It was what? 10 years old, I mean, it had some stuff, but the bulk of it was new, and also I was just running around being creative for two years, just going to places, arriving, staying in sort of motels and shooting drag queens in the street. It was just so fun. Need to do another one. Well, no, the thing about it, though, was it got. It became hugely successful because it was a new look. It was people hadn't seen it.

Magnus: 52:59

The fact that it took me so that the guy, the agent who took me on, thought it was a no-brainer. I had half the book shot. I had a forward already written by boy george and, and these in an exhibition, and it went around. All he was, and I found out later on he was like top 10 agent in america, and it went around all the big publishing houses and all of them would. Everyone would love it, and then there'd always be some straight guy going drag, ugh, drag, now it's over, can't stand it, and they'd constantly turn it down, and so by the time it got to Chronicle at the end it was like my agent was going. I don't know what's going on, why is it? It was such a no-brainer. And then, luckily, chronicle took it and even they. Once it came out, they went oh, we might, because they never make money off coffee table books because they're so expensive to produce. And I remember them going oh, we might actually make some money off them. And they have done, but it was doing something different Doing it. Now everyone, as I said, people have run with my way.

Magnus: 54:02

When I first shot drag in Sydney, courtney wrote me an email, which I lost, which I had it, but basically I arrived back in London and she just wrote me a long email thanking me, for which I had it. But basically I arrived back in London and she just wrote me a long email thanking me for what I was doing for the drug community, because I was shooting it in a totally different way. I was shooting. Everything you ever saw was some wistful, sad man in a wig doing their makeup in a mirror, and it was about absolutely understanding that they spent three hours doing their makeup.

Magnus: 54:33

So you don't stick a light over here, and so it was just lighting it, and lighting the art form of it rather than the tragedy of the homosexual. So it was just new, and so when they needed to get publicity, every fucking thing took place. It was in the New Yorkork times, the daily mail did a spread, it was everywhere and I hired I was smart and I hired a publicist as well as their own public thing, so I really it went everywhere yeah, for audiences that don't know, I had the pleasure of collaborating with Magnus on an exhibition of his work called Queen, and we're friends forever after that.

David: 55:12

But that went wild. It's one of the first major shows which was purely dedicated to incredible drag artists and your photography, and I think we all knew it was going to be good. But we ended up getting like 15,000 people through in four weeks and we got a lot of media coverage. We got a lot of social coverage. We, you know, we agreed we're going to try and tour it. It's really special and I think that idea of looking to the new and not going back is sometimes the best thing to do.

Magnus: 55:40

right, not don't just do another coffee table, but try and do something different yeah, I did write to them, I think a year ago, and say what I'd really like to do is do a 10 year anniversary edition of Y-Drag where I could keep some of the big famous pictures, change up some of the ones that now don't do re-releases, and so we then tried to get it out of their hands because we could take it to a different publisher because the book's kind of iconic. So I think it's an easier sell than a new book in a way, if you're doing this thing, but you have to be selling under a certain amount for me to get out of the contract and it's still. I think it was actually while we were doing Theer because we pushed it a bit so we got the sales just up again. So I couldn't and now it's too late to do 10th anniversary because it needs to be sorted out a year in advance and it would be may 26 is when it would be 10 years, so I'd need to reshoot new things and so it's annoying. But, and then I did talk, daddy pitch, doing a queen book, then doing more than why don't we just do queen by magnus Hastings' book, which the links to the whole thing, with Danny on the cover or whatever.

Magnus: 56:55

I think there's so much drag on it's so oversaturated that it doesn't. It's not. What I did was fresh and different and people were excited to have that on their coffee table because it was the first thing of its kind like that. That was just, it was cool and it was beautiful, and so I don't. I think now it's you're bombarded with it, and also the way I remember willem saying to me. When I shot willem for the first time, she said oh my god, you know how to shoot drag, because it was again about lighting properly, just lighting the artistry. And now people get it. They do that and then they retouch the image of their life as well and then put them in space or whatever.

David: 57:37

Well, I have no doubt there's going to be many, many more extraordinary Magnus Hastings things coming up, and I have been trying to persuade Magnus to do a podcast, which he will do at some point because he knows so many extraordinary artists.

Magnus: 57:51

He's amazing.

David: 57:54

So I know this one's going to set you off because we love a good moan, but there's two elements to what I ask at the end of interviews. So one industry misconceptions or bugbears that you'd want to get off your chest and just deal with now, once and for all.

Magnus: 58:10

Well, I've said I mean my main peeve is when people try and direct Other people, try and tell who I'm shooting what to do. As I said before, that's a real issue for me. I've got better. I've had been on. I've actually been there where someone's done that and then my assistant's gone after it. Oh my God, I can done that and then my assistant's gone after us. Oh my god, I can't believe you. They would. They just looked at me through the whole thing thinking I was going to explode because they knew me well enough. But I've got a lot better. But that is the main one for me. I mean it's hard to pick, just just working with some people, that's. It's worth working with other people, not being the boss. The expression is the photographer is king, and and that's how I like it.

David: 58:50

That's how you like it. You've worked hard for it, right?

Magnus: 58:52

Well, no, it just means that it's my shoot, it's my vision and it's a worked in vision with my model or my celebrity or whatever. I just I always have a problem with clients because they tend not to be very creative or imaginative. The clients are hard because they come in. I remember shooting a thing, for I think it was Universal Music and I had three different. There was a band that nearly happened and there were two girls and a guy, and one girl was the tallest. So I had one person come over and go. I think she needs to be the tall, one needs to be in the middle. And then somebody two minutes later go yeah, we need the boy in the middle. And it was this thing in my ear well, I'm trying. And then trying to look over my shoulder and in the end I went can you all go into a corner, decide what you want and one of you come and tell me what I didn't?

David: 59:48

work. I didn't work well. People think people, people think they're creative or they know how to do it. And the reality is, if you're going to work with a photographer, yeah, allow the photographer to have the vision, stage it and be there to support, not throw too many voices in or the other one getting images of people.

Magnus: 1:00:05

So getting a dreamy image of j-lo and going can you do this? It's like what do you want me to do what I do, or do you want me to copy somebody who's a completely different aesthetic to mine? It's so.

David: 1:00:18

That's another one it's quite rude, isn't it trying to do that with people?

Magnus: 1:00:22

they're giving you a mood, not mood board, but just images. Specific mood boards, good, but then images of somebody and we want it like this, and then when, and it's all about the lighting and the photographer's shot, and you go. So you want me. Oh, actually that band I got with the story previously. I was because they couldn't afford david de chapelle, so they came for me, so I guess that was no, it was fine Anyway.

David: 1:00:48

We are at the end of the interview, but the last thing that I ask guests is to make a cultural confession. So it's either a little secret, a guilty pleasure, an unexpected revelation that no one really knows, or very few people. It's something that could have happened on set. Cultural confession.

Magnus: 1:01:06

I don't have anything hidden, because I say everything. I don't really have a filter, david, do I so?

David: 1:01:13

No, you don't, but that's why I love you.

Magnus: 1:01:17

My cultural confession is I don't have one. That's the confession. I have nothing, I hold nothing back. That's my confession.

David: 1:01:25

Beautiful, beautiful. Magnus Hastings, thank you so much for doing this. A pleasure good to see your face again and hear your voice, and we'll be following you and looking forward to seeing what you do next. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode before the applause. Please do tell everyone about this podcast and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms by searching at Before Applause. If you've got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, want to recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we'd love to hear from you. You can direct message us on any of our social accounts or email studio at beforetheapplaudspodcom. Thank you,