Speaker 1: 0:02

Welcome to this new episode of Before the Applause with me, your host, david Watson. In this episode, I talk to Helen Tom, a passionate educator who is dedicated to inspiring and supporting young people as they explore their pathways into the creative industries. Helen shares her journey from a passionate young dancer to a successful performer, then on to teaching and now to becoming a nurturing, inspiring leader and mentor for hundreds of aspiring young people. She reflects on her early experience with dance, the challenges she faced during her training at Bird College and the transition into teaching where she has truly found her calling. Where she has truly found her calling, we discussed the impact she's had on the students' lives, the importance of being open-minded in the creative industries and her current role in fostering collaboration among various artistic disciplines. Helen's journey reminds us, whether on stage or in the studio, it's the passion, persistence and people we uplift that define our legacy, proof that the most meaningful careers often begin when we put our best foot forward. Grab a cup of something nice and join us as we discover more.

Speaker 1: 1:12

Before the applause Helen, my darling, welcome to the show. Hi, we're already giggling already.

Speaker 1: 1:21

I think this podcast will be full of giggles.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Well, well, we go back a long way, don't we?

Speaker 1: 1:26

we do my love. Um, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. Um, I've been looking forward to this one. So this one's a very special one for me, because helen is the reason why I started dancing all them years ago. I don't even want to count how many years ago, because I'm much older now, so it's pretty freaky to think about it's a lot, yeah, uh 2003 yeah, maybe a bit earlier 2001, oh, geez louise, a bit older now, aren't I?

Speaker 1: 2:00

but oh well we preserve so Helen is a wonderful dance teacher and mentor, but you've had quite an eclectic career. You've done some amazing bits and bobs and this is why I thought this would be a really great conversation and obviously we have a connection. So this is a really special conversation and I know lots of your students are going to listen to this as well, because everybody loves you and everyone's grateful for everything you've done for us, but also you don't often get to talk about yourself, so I thought this would be a really good opportunity to do that. Let's go back quite far to little Helen. So, baby Helen, what was your childhood like? Was you? Were you straight into dance and performing arts, or was it a slow burner? What was it like?

Speaker 2: 2:50

I remember putting records on my parents' record player in the front room and dancing around to music, and there was always music playing, you know radio or the record player, and I just always moved to the music. And then I think it was when I was six we were having a Sunday dinner and my mum had done a roast chicken and she always used to save the wishbone and so she said come on, do you want to make a wish? So I said yes and held the wishbone, my little finger, and she said right, you've got to make a wish. So I made this wish and my mum said that I was so sort of concentrating she knew I was definitely thinking about something and she said that afterwards she said what did you wish for? And I said I can't tell you because it won't come true. And she said you can if you whisper. And that was when, apparently, I said, oh, I'd like to have ballet lessons. And that was it.

Speaker 2: 3:53

Yeah, at six I started ballet classes, like most you know little girls, once a week, and then I don't think I'd been going very long and I started to make excuses not to go. I remember telling my dad oh, I've got a stomach ache and all sorts of things. And it got to the point where my mum said to me right, go today, but if you don't want to go after this, that's fine. You know, we'll find you another hobby. You can do something, something else. So I went along and at the end of the class the teacher said can you ask your mummy to come and see me? So I went outside. Oh, the teacher wants to speak to you and straight away she's like what have you done? Thinking of 40? And apparently it was to say to my mum I'd taken to it really well, I picked everything up really quickly and they wanted to put me in for my first exam. So that was it. Then I was hooked and, yeah, the rest is history from making excuses to being besotted with it.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Yeah, can you remember what the feeling was like, what feeling you got from being part of that initial kind of ballet classes? Do you remember what it felt like?

Speaker 2: 5:06

I think I remember I had a little carry box that I used to keep my ballet shoes in, and on the front there was a picture of a ballerina and she was on point in a tutu, and I don't know. I got quite fixated on that and I think in my head that's what I wanted to do. It's a long time ago 51 years ago, david. It's a long, long time.

Speaker 1: 5:35

You don't look a day over 20, girl.

Speaker 2: 5:39

But I loved it, I really loved it. I was hooked. Once they'd said they thought I was good at it, that was it. I was completely hooked. You know, even at that age I felt really like dedicated to it. It's what I wanted to do and I was dancing all the time. Then I'd be doing it at home and, of course, the the ballet lessons then turned into like modern lessons and then turned into modern lessons and then turned into tap lessons. And then I remember practising tap at home in the kitchen and my dad screaming stop scratching the table. But yeah, that was it.

Speaker 1: 6:21

I was hooked, I loved it and then did you so. From there, when you went through school, did you continue to dance and did it just get more intense and focused.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Yeah, there was a little bit of a blip. I think I was about 11 or 12. And at that point I was sort of doing exams and I'd started doing a few competitions and my mum bless her she noticed she'd watch other girls and she noticed that some of the steps I was doing I wasn't doing them the same as the other girls, and she quickly realized I wasn't being taught correctly. So she said well, you know, I think you need to, we need to send you somewhere else because you're not being taught things correctly.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Of course I didn't want to move because I'd got friends at dance and I think you know your friends at dance are stronger in some ways than your school friends yeah but I went with it and thank god she noticed, because, yeah, a lot of the technical things have not been taught correctly so I kind of had to start again from scratch. But again, there were more opportunities. At that dance school we used to have connections with well, it was ATV, um, it's ITV now, but the ATV studios were in Birmingham and we used to appear regularly on Tizwas and we used to do a lot of things on children's television. It was great, great, fabulous experience. I can remember, you know, our parents would take us to the dance school really early on a Saturday morning. We'd all get put on this coach and they'd be waving us off and then we'd return back covered in custard pie. It was the shaving foam, wasn't it? It was in our hair, it was all matted. Yeah, it was great fun, lo, that I learned a natural style, yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:10

I learned a lot um, is it interestingly, your mother, your mom noticing that the technique wasn't being taught? Is that because your mom's got a dance background?

Speaker 2: 8:18

no, no not at all straight off my mom yeah, she doesn't say well, she doesn't dance, she certainly can't sing, although she's. She always reminds me that she won a singing competition at butlins. The judges must have been deaf because she can't sing, but yeah it was. Yeah, I've a lot really to thank her for, because I don't think I'd have gone as far as I did if she hadn't have noticed that's really interesting that she could pick that up just by and not having a dance background.

Speaker 1: 8:52

And have you got any siblings? No, no, I'm an only child so she's not even like she's been seeing it elsewhere.

Speaker 2: 8:58

So that's really interesting she used to watch the ballet and she got that interest from my granddad, her father, because whenever he could he would go and watch ballet. Because he fought in the Second World War. He was a boxer. My mum reckons that's where I get my tenacity from is from him.

Speaker 2: 9:22

But even though he was six foot foot four, he's quite a big belt guy. He loved ballet and he saw, he watched margot fontaine and and rudolph nurayev and he loved classical music. So she got that same interest, I think. So she liked to watch ballet yeah but she just knew it, she never did it so interesting, isn it?

Speaker 1: 9:43

Yeah, so once you went through school, when you were like in the teenage years, did you get to do an option or anything around dance, or was it not really a thing?

Speaker 2: 9:51

No, I think the only option we had was drama. So I picked drama as an option and certainly by that point I knew I wanted to dance and I was really lucky because my parents were behind me 100%. I'm not so sure the school was. I mean, I'm a teacher now and I get it, you know, but I mean back then nobody where I live were sort of trying to push me towards going to, you know, into sixth form and then to university and I think, ironically, they were pushing me towards being a teacher. I had no inclination to be a teacher at the time, but I knew I wanted to dance and that's what I was aiming for.

Speaker 1: 10:43

And then you went to Bird right.

Speaker 2: 10:46

Yeah, so I went when I was 16.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Which is so young. It's so young, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 10:50

Yeah, it is, because see, my daughter she's well, she's 17 now. There's no way I'd send her to London at 16. But, yeah, I auditioned for Arts Educational. I managed to get accepted for an audition at Rombert, because you didn't automatically get an audition with Rombert. I also had an audition at Bird and I had an audition at Lane, and Arts Ed was where I wanted to go and, of course, there was no internet. Then, yeah, there was no internet. Then, yeah, there was no internet. So I couldn't go online and look up these places and look at sort of the work that they were putting out. It was literally, you know, you phone them up or you send a letter to ask for a prospectus and that's what you went from. And so it was arts educational. That's where I wanted to go and I went and did my audition at arts.

Speaker 2: 11:48

I mean, the audition went well because I got offered a place, but when I walked in the building it didn't feel right for me. It, yeah, I just I didn't feel comfortable there. And when I went to birds, oh yeah, I've I felt like I was meant to be there and I felt comfortable there and it was a long audition, whereas the one at Arts Ed. It was much shorter the one at Birds. We were there all day and we did full-on ballet class, we did a modern class, we had to do improvisation, we had to prepare a solo, we had a physio exam and then the interview. So yeah, we were there the whole day and I loved it. So I was really nervous waiting for the letter to come through and I remember I was doing a dance competition I think it was in Cheltenham and me and my mum had gone there to do the competition and we'd stayed overnight because I'd got a few different competitions over a number of days and my mum kept phoning home to speak to my dad. I said let's come.

Speaker 2: 12:56

I said let's come and I remember I was sat there in the auditorium I was watching some friends do their solos and saw my mum walking across the balcony and she's sort of doing sign language to me and she's going. I'm like that. And then I waited about five minutes and then I saw her walking back and she's looking and she's going. So I knew I knew I'd got in because that's the one I was waiting for. So, yeah, I went to Bird, yeah, when I was 16. For so, yeah, I went to Bird, yeah, when I was 16.

Speaker 1: 13:28

It's such an interesting thing you say about feeling and I think you know, for those that are listening that are interested in dance career, many, many people go with feeling, because that's definitely what happened to me when I auditioned for different places and Northern just felt right. When I auditioned for different places and Northern just felt right, and I think it's important to go with that right, that it feels home or it's making you feel a certain way.

Speaker 2: 13:52

Yeah, absolutely yeah. I say that to my students all the time, you know. I just say to them if you've got an open day, go to the open day because you need to. You know, it's not about just looking at you know the resources and the facilities.

Speaker 2: 14:09

It's about feeling whether you know you're going to be able to live there for three years yeah, and whether it's the right place for you, and I always tell them that story because you know, like I say, art said was the place I wanted to go, because on paper I thought, yeah, great, but no, I just didn't feel it. When I was there, whereas I did with Bird, it just felt like home. So, yeah, it is important.

Speaker 1: 14:34

So what was Bird like when, when you moved off to Bird at 16 and started going into this whole new world?

Speaker 2: 14:42

There were about 30 of us in my year group. I don't know how many they take now, but it, yeah, it was small. It was a very small college at the time and of course my parents kept my feet firmly on the ground because you know saying to me well, you might be the best round here, but you're not going to be the best down there. It'll be the best from all the schools. So you know, thanks, dad. But of course he was right and it was hard work.

Speaker 2: 15:10

It was a real shock to the system. You know, sort of nine o'clock every morning, there you are stood at the bar doing ballet class for the day and the classes were going on until sort of seven o'clock at night. So I think, for about the first term, I was in bed by about half past eight. I was absolutely knackered.

Speaker 2: 15:31

You know what was good about birds is that you did everything in that first year, yeah, but right back to basics, but stripped everything, stripped your technique back and you started again from scratch, which of course is the right thing to do, because you're trying to undo all the faults that people have picked up from other. You know teaching styles, but we did everything. And then in year two you continue to do everything and then, towards the end of year two, that's when you started to specialise more in the areas that you wanted to progress in. So yeah, it was for me it was sort of more you know, the commercial and musical theatre route, because obviously by then I was, I definitely wasn't going to go into ballet, I'd got boobs.

Speaker 1: 16:24

Too much boob.

Speaker 2: 16:27

Yeah, I didn't have the right physique for ballet, but you know that ballet technique is just so important for everything, for everything, so you don't lose it. Once you've got it, you don't lose it. But yeah, I did everything at birds and I think that's just paid off massively, not just in terms of performing, but probably more so in my teaching career. Yeah, the fact, you know, we did a bit of drama, we did singing, we did some music theory, so many different styles of dance, so yeah, that's helped me massively in my teaching career.

Speaker 1: 17:04

And everybody thinks going to a vocational school is an easy ride. But it's not, it's full on. You know, I remember when being in northern and I because we were connected to the Leeds campus and you'd meet people and they're like, oh, we're not in for the next three days. We're like no, we don't have half term off. We're going from 8 30 till 8. Yeah, you get the tiniest break. It's hard work and we do the academic stuff as well as the physical. It's such a grueling experience. I'm interested as a teacher now. You just spoke about allowing yourself to strip away stuff for when you're going to train. I wondered if you could just talk about what people should think about when they're going to do courses and letting go of all that. It's not deleting, it's just letting go and reset, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 17:52

and the benefits of doing that see the type of students that I get where I teach now it the range is massive. So we'll get some students who have maybe done some performing arts at secondary school, or they've maybe done a GCSE or a BTEC at secondary school in performing arts, or they may have just done it in drama, or they may have done it in dance, and then you'll get some students who've just been to a dance school and haven't done any performing arts or dance at secondary school and haven't done any performing arts or dance at secondary school Because we do a performing arts course, we sometimes get some students who've not danced before. What I find is often a lot of the students from the dance schools can be the ones who are quite set in their mind about what the techniques are and how they do ballet or how they do contemporary at their dance school, and it's often the ones with the least experience. They're more open-minded and I think that's the key. It's the mindset. You've got to change the mindset, because I do think these days you've got to be multi-skilled, multi-talented, and you're only ever going to get that if you're open-minded and willing to accept other techniques and other ways of being taught, and I think that's so important now. I mean, I thought at the time, you know, when I sort of stepped out into the industry, it was competitive. Then it's like a billion times more competitive now At Birds.

Speaker 1: 19:32

What about that competition thing? And you know, remembering what your dad said, because everybody thinks you know we're at the top of our game where we live. But then what was that like? Stepping into there's an obvious benefit and you know I talk to people all the time about it's where you find yourself. People really want to be there. It's not like school where people can't be bothered. People really want to be there.

Speaker 2: 19:51

I wondered what that competition, or those comparing yourself to other people, was like it was hard because of course, there were some amazing dancers in in my year group. We had a massive range of teachers and I've got to be honest and say that I do think there were favourites. I don't think I was one of the favourites, but there were some teachers who would spend time on me and give me those corrections, so we always wanted to do really well for them. But you know, now I'm older, I'm glad I wasn't one of the favourites because it made me work harder and so I'd got that hunger when I left to sort of help me along in the industry. So yeah, it didn't feel great at the time. Whether it was because I was only 16 and you know I was away from home and I was very homesick, I don't know. I really value having gone to Bird and I value what I got out of that. And even though, as I say, there were favourites, I'm glad I wasn't one of the favourites because it just made me work harder.

Speaker 1: 21:04

And it's interesting because most people that do a vocational thing of dance or performing arts they're always the favourites. But it's interesting because half of them basically work for three years and then are out of the industry. They don't last. That's my little thing when I'm looking going actually you've not lasted, I have Just resilience and all that build-up. So tell me what your first professional job was out of birds, what was the first gig?

Speaker 2: 21:32

so we, when we went to birds, we weren't allowed to audition in the first two years of the course, and I think that's the right thing, actually, because you do need to be focused on your training. So we were allowed to audition for things in our third year. So the first thing that I auditioned for was panto, and we had a company that came to birds to audition for dancers, and that's how I got my equity card, because equity was still a thing then yeah, yeah, you needed your card.

Speaker 2: 22:05

It's different now, but you see, then you had to get a provisional equity card and the only way you could get a provisional equity card was by getting a contract that offered a provisional equity card. And so this company that came were able to do that. So I auditioned and I got a panto and that's how I got my provisional equity card, because that was like the massive hurdle at the time for anybody in the industry was getting that equity card. And, of course, once you got your provisional equity card, you then to get your full equity card. You would then have to have evidence of 36 weeks professional work before you could apply for your full equity card. And you see, there were certain auditions at the time, certain auditions and jobs you couldn't even go for without having an equity card. I mean, it's completely different now anyone can go.

Speaker 1: 23:02

And so, yeah, that was my first uh job and that panto was up in scunthorpe so what panto was it and what was it like in your first role with all these professional dancers and performers?

Speaker 2: 23:14

panto was cinderella and there were four of us from birds that did the panto and one of the girls was the choreographer, and then there was another girl from birds who'd got the role I think it was dan deanie and it was just great, you know, and we sort of we did that. It was only a short run, I think it was only about four or five weeks, and then straight out of that we were back at birds, uh, back into training, and then I had to leave birds a little bit earlier in the summer because I'd gone along to an audition and that was for summer season and that was at the pier in Cromer. So that was my first summer season.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yeah, the pavilion theatre at the end of the year in Cromer, and it's quite famous now I mean at the. The time it wasn't that sort of famous, but it is now because it's one of the very few sort of end of the peer theatre shows that still goes and that was great and that went from June all the way through to September.

Speaker 1: 24:21

It's quite a long season, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 24:23

Yeah, it was, it was. It was great to have gone straight out of Bird, straight into that, and that was it then out in the big wide world.

Speaker 1: 24:34

Flabbing around, trying to figure out how to make a living. So after that, was that the point? Then you started. What did you audition for?

Speaker 2: 24:41

next Is that, when you went to the cruise ships, Well, I didn't do cruise ships till I was 27, so before then I literally just did sort of pantos, summer seasons, did some trade shows, did bits of cabaret work. You know, there was there was times, obviously, where, you know, I was out of work, but for the vast majority of the time, yeah, I was working. And of course it's hard, isn't it, at the start, because you're constantly going to auditions. Again, this is something you know. I say to my students you, you have to just go to auditions and you're probably going to get more notes than you are. Yes, yeah, but the point is you just keep going. And then, of course, the more jobs you do, the more you become known.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:30

Then the less auditions you start going to, because if you do a good job, they start asking you back, and that's kind of what happened. And as I say, yeah, I didn't do the cruise ships until I was about 27. In fact, I hadn't been abroad till I did the cruise ship.

Speaker 1: 25:46

I love it. I haven't been abroad, I'm just going to jump on a cruise ship.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Yeah, and crikey, that wasn't straightforward either, because I ended up replacing someone. One of the reasons I'd not worked abroad at that point was because I'd heard a lot of stories from other dancers. You know they'd had some bad experiences and of course, there were a lot of agents around at the time that weren't great and a lot of girls were quite naive in, just you know, getting these jobs abroad and they were in some quite difficult circumstances. But a friend of mine that I worked with she'd done a cruise ship and she to this agent that was based up in Blackpool his name was Roger Kendrick god bless him, he's not around anymore, lovely man and she said to me you know, if you want to do any work abroad, you know, send off your photo and your CV to him and he's really good and he always looks after his performers. So I did and then I got a call saying can you go to Huddersfield tomorrow for an audition? So right, okay.

Speaker 1: 26:56

Off, you trot.

Speaker 2: 26:57

Off I went and that's where I met Charlotte, who we both know. Yeah, so Charlotte Graham was choreographer and she'd already got some dancers out on a ship and one of them had got a really bad injury and it wasn't getting any better, so she needed to be replaced. So I was auditioning with another girl to replace and I got the job. And, yeah, she said right. She said I need you to go out to Cyprus in a few weeks. I'm thinking, oh my God, I've not even got a passport. Yeah, so I came home it was literally all systems go, because I was sort of having to get all because you need certain clothes, don't you, on cruise ships.

Speaker 1: 27:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Because they have formal evenings and informal evenings. You know, know you've got to have a few nice gangs and all of that. And my mum had to drive me up I think it was to Peterborough to get my passport and all sorts of things and jumped on the plane and went off to Cyprus and joined this ship and had to learn all these routines because I had quite a few different shows as well. So it was a lot. You know, you were learning a lot of routines to sort of get into the shows as soon as possible and um, and yeah, that was that then.

Speaker 2: 28:15

And so for a number of years I uh sort of did like the summer period on the cruise ships and then I'd come back and do the pantos, and with the pantos, by that point I was working for Kudos, who I think the big producers they still have the most pantos all over the country and at this point I'd done a lot of pantos for them and I'd sort of worked my way up to being head girl and then I ended up working my way up and I did some choreography for them. So I choreographed some of their pantos.

Speaker 1: 28:52

I hope you're still getting royalty checks for them. No.

Speaker 2: 28:58

I will say the best panto I did for them was at the Hippodrome in Birmingham and that was Dick Whittington and at the time it was literally an all-star cast and it was a brand-new panto they'd put on and we got Wayne Sleep was in it, rosemary Ford who at the time she was on. They'd done another remake of the Generation game.

Speaker 1: 29:21

Love, I literally love that. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 29:24

Who else? Vince Hill Wolf from the Gladiator. There was Geoffrey Holland from Heidi High oh, my goodness, there were so many people in this panto and they actually the theatre, the museum, I think it's I can't remember what it's called, but it's a museum that specialises in gathering evidence for their archives came and filmed the panto and I think, because the Theatre Museum closed down, it was in Covent Garden, I think it's closed down, but they moved all the archives to the V&A Museum, I think, in London.

Speaker 2: 30:03

So, somewhere in the archives. I'm in that one.

Speaker 1: 30:08

I'm totally going to go and find it.

Speaker 2: 30:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:10

I'll have a look Will. I'll look it up for you.

Speaker 2: 30:12

It was meant to be one of the best examples of yeah, british pantomime. It was yeah, it was a great panto that was Carried on doing that up until 2001. And then that's when I entered the world of teaching.

Speaker 1: 30:29

So tell me about why teaching before we talk about how we met. Why teaching? Why did you transition into teaching?

Speaker 2: 30:36

Yeah, it wasn't intentional. So what had happened was I'd been let down for a cruise ship contract, I think a company at some point had gone bankrupt. So the knock-on effect was that contract fell through and so I'd got a panto booked in that was at the Theatre Royal in Newcastle. But after that I'd got no work because this contract had fallen through. So I was thinking, oh crikey, you know, I need to do something, because at this point I'd got my own place. You know, I've got bills to pay. So I was thinking, right, what shall I do? And I thought, well, you know, maybe I should start thinking about upskilling, because of course, the world moves on while you're out entertaining and travelling and seeing the world. And I thought, my God, I know nothing about computers. So I thought, right, I'll go along to my local college and see what courses they do. So I went along, I got chatting to a lady, didn't know who she was, didn't realise that, in fact, fact, she was in charge of teach training at the college. So she was asking me what I'd done. I told and she said have you thought about teaching? I said, no, no, I don't want to teach dance schools. And I said, um, but you know, there's only dancing schools that do what I do. She said no, she said there's colleges that that do dance and performing arts and drama. And I was like what? Because of course all this had happened in all that time I've been working about teaching in further education. And I said, but I don't think they've got dance courses. Yes, they have, they do performing arts and dance. I said okay. So yeah, I basically ended up signing up for this teacher training course.

Speaker 2: 32:26

So that was in September 2000. I started that and they said, as part of the course, you know if you see any jobs, apply for them. So you know. And they said you can put all the evidence in your portfolio. So I saw this job advertised for New College in Telford and I applied and I got invited for an interview. Okay, I had this lengthy interview and then, much to my surprise, they phoned me and offered me the job. I was like, okay, yes, I'll do it, but of course I'd got to fulfill my panto contract. So I, literally, beginning of December, did the panto contract and I finished that panto on the Saturday it was the last Saturday in January my mum drove all the way up to Newcastle to pick me up, packed all my stuff, came home and on that Monday morning that was me starting at Telford yeah, starting this teaching job. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

Speaker 1: 33:32

It's so funny. So I remember you coming for the job interview, so there was a group of us we're in the studio, and so I think I can't remember. I think we did have a dance teacher, but she was on maternity and maybe didn't come back she was.

Speaker 2: 33:51

You know she was. She's been on long. Yeah, she'd been off a lot long-term sickness.

Speaker 1: 33:57

I didn't, they didn't tell you so we were like, oh, we're gonna get a new teacher. We were just like doing our thing. And then the door swung open and this tiny, beautiful creature with a little pixie cut and these massive Spice Girls platforms marched on in and then walked up to the top of the stage, which is, it's, like an old school hall stage, and I remember we were doing an exercise I don't even know why, because we're doing an exercise and we all looked up and you're on the top of the stage and you do it. Now you bring your arm tight in and you're like hi, like carry on, but you're like watching and observing us. And that was the moment where I knew I fell in love, because I was like, oh my god, look at her lines.

Speaker 1: 34:41

Bearing in mind, at this point I'd only been dancing, I would say, maximum eight months, because I started really late. I might me joining new college dance was an accident. I was at TCAT doing IT and then you came in and but even when you were like I think you did a demo with us as well and we were like, shit, she knows the stuff, like technically, and we and it was. That was the beginning of forever, right yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 35:09

Uh, you know, when I took that job, I had no idea what I was getting myself. Yeah, you know, I was so naive but in what way?

Speaker 1: 35:19

in what way?

Speaker 2: 35:20

naive to the world of teaching you know it didn't feel like that.

Speaker 2: 35:24

Of course, when I went there, I should have asked more questions about the situation, because the situation I went into was that your teacher had been off so much and you know there was nobody else at the college that knew anything about dance, so you guys hadn't been taught for such a long time. No, and of course I started. It was the beginning of February and of course you know there was no end of courses, wasn't there? There was the GCSE dance course, there was an A-level dance course at the time, there was the BTEC tech I think it was first diploma and b tech national diploma and of course, with the um, gcse and a level, but particularly with gcse, that practical exam always falls early.

Speaker 2: 36:14

It's one of the earliest exams when the gcse's kick off. So I literally probably had about eight weeks to get you all through that, that syllabus. And yeah, I kind of that started to dawn on me a couple of weeks after being there and, oh, my goodness me, I thought I was having a nervous breakdown. When it got to February half term, I had to go away on holiday because I literally I thought I'm gonna I'm really gonna have a nervous breakdown. I was having to take on so much knowledge and content which hadn't been covered in my training yeah um, the practice work.

Speaker 2: 36:56

That was fine, that that wasn't a problem for me, but it was all the theory stuff and at times it felt like I was literally one lesson ahead of you guys. And yet and I felt I felt so welcomed by you all because I think you'd been without a teacher for such a long time you were just grateful that there was somebody there in front of you giving you something to do.

Speaker 1: 37:20

We were like tell us, feed us, we want it.

Speaker 2: 37:23

Yeah, you wanted to learn, you all wanted to learn. Do you know, I've got to say, you know, over the many, many, because it's about 25 years now I've been teaching your cohort probably, I think, have been one of the most successful cohorts, and probably it might have been because of that whole situation, because you were like sponges, you just wanted to learn and you were so motivated so it was wonderful and I think I felt really responsible because I thought, oh, my god, you've had this awful situation. You know, I felt like I'd got to get you through those exams and you know you did get through them. But do you know what, dave, for me, the point where I remember thinking that you'd absolutely fallen in love with dance was when we went to watch the ballet, do you remember?

Speaker 1: 38:16

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 38:17

We did a trip to see Swan Lake and I think that's when they were doing all the building work at the Hippodrome and I think, it was the NIA, wasn't it? And I remember you were sat a couple of seats along from me. We all sat down beginning and you were sat back in your seat, you know, and I think by the end of the first act you were sat right forward in your seat and I knew, I thought that's it, he's hooked.

Speaker 1: 38:43

Got me Because it was, wasn't it? It was Birmingham Royal Ballet.

Speaker 2: 38:46

Yeah, it was, it was Swan Lake.

Speaker 1: 38:50

And we did a workshop in Oak and Gates Theatre.

Speaker 2: 38:52

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:54

I've worked for Birmingham Royal Ballet and actually I found out when I dug through the archives for that date it was Marion Tate. Dug through the archives for that date, it was Marion Tate dancing. It's such a random thing, and me in the company as well I'm working. I'm like you don't understand guys. It kind of was you that got me dancing and I remember feeling so emotional watching that show and you there sitting holding my hand and I'm like I can't, I can't take it. I had no idea what was going on, apart from like it. I could feel them dancing.

Speaker 2: 39:22

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:23

And then I was hooked and then I was like, right, I'm going to do this. I don't know what it wasn't that I was going to be a classical dancer, I just knew that was going to be the thing that I did. And then I think maybe we got back to college and I was like I'm a determined individual, but I think I turned it up a notch. Yeah, individual, but I think I turned it up a notch. Yeah. It was quite chaotic at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 39:43

I think most of us were like do you know what it is, what it is, we're going to make the most of it. And then when you got there, we were like teach us everything. You know that. You built up all over these years and I remember you doing choreography with us. Most of us had never choreographed a single step and I remember you really encouraging us to play and experiment. Before you know we were doing full out routines. But it was such a joyful time and that's all I can remember in those times is we get to dance, we get to create with you and you were really, really supportive, even if you were shitting yourself or you're overwhelmed. We never knew it.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Oh well, I I mean when I think back oh gosh, I think I was pretty awful teacher in some ways maybe you found like that, but it clearly wasn't. I think what worked is we were learning together. Yeah, you know, I was sort of, because teaching in education is completely different from teaching you know, a dance school yeah it's just completely different.

Speaker 2: 40:46

I was sort of doing my teacher training as well as doing this full-time job, and the responsibility of getting you guys through that first lot of exams in a matter of weeks was just yeah, it was unbelievable. I don't know how I didn't have a nervous breakdown. I'm glad I didn't and because there were times where I thought I just can't do it, but I'm so glad. I don't know what made me do it, but I stuck it out and I'm so glad I did because actually, you know, even though I thought I was quite a good dancer, teaching Teaching's my thing, you know. I've come to realise that's yeah, that's where I've been heading all along and I have been very, very successful in my teaching and I love it. It drives me insane at times.

Speaker 1: 41:36

But thinking about, you know we spoke earlier on about there's obviously lots of great qualities from bird, but all that exposure from all the different styles and you know, musical theater, drama, staging, lighting, makeup all of that has come into play eventually in your teacher because that's what you do. So actually, I think people not quite sure where they want to go. I think the advice probably is be open-minded to what is out there, be inquisitive, explore everything because you never know what you might need, especially a bit of like you know tenacity when you're freaking out because a new job.

Speaker 2: 42:14

I think you know, when I took on that first, that teaching role, I felt very much like I was the student, because there was some I mean some of the members of staff there, though I mean they were so lovely, the staff at New College. They were amazing and they were really helpful and really supportive, but I was always aware of the fact that you know they'd they'd gone to university specifically just to teach you know, they knew so much more about teaching than I did.

Speaker 2: 42:46

So in many ways it was because of that I felt all the time I've got to do more, I've got to do more, I need to learn more, I need to get better, and I think really that's it. That's what made me be more successful as a teacher, because I was, you know, I felt like I'd got to make up for a lot of time and, of course, then there was opportunities that came about which I'd encourage any young teacher to do, where you know, apply to the exam boards, to be like an examiner or a moderator or an external verifier. Because I've done all of that. I did it with AQA and I learned so much because, of course, I got to go around to other schools and I saw, you know, what they were doing and I saw some you know fabulous practice. I saw some not so good stuff, but it was all it all helped me get better.

Speaker 2: 43:39

And then, you know, after doing that, for it all helped me get better. And then, you know, after doing that for AQA, I became a standards verifier for BTEC and again, I learned loads from watching others. So I always encourage younger staff now to do that stuff. It's hard to juggle around your teaching, but sometimes you can get so boxed in where you are and so wrapped up in what's going on. You don't look beyond where you teach, and you need to, because it helps you improve and ultimately the students get a better experience.

Speaker 2: 44:15

I think if you do that and I love where I'm at now. I was really upset to leave new college. You know I was made redundant. We'd had a change of leadership and the new principal that came in had got very different ideas about how they wanted the college, you know, to go, and so at first it was voluntary redundancy and I was like hell, no. And then it changed to compulsory and I fought it as much as I could. You know the unions got involved but, yeah, I couldn't fight it any longer and it was made redundant. I was so upset to leave there because I felt, like Telford, I'd made a real contribution to that area because, dave, you know, when you were there there wasn't much going on in terms of performing arts or dancing any of those and I think I did make a difference where I was at New College because, you know, the numbers rapidly grew.

Speaker 1: 45:19

Because everyone was desperate for it. Otherwise we had to go away and the reality is most of us couldn't afford that. So it was really important and I think you know people haven't been to Telford. It just doesn't have that much offer. So people are yearning for creativity and it just wasn't there. They were really good, like if you want to be finance and all that great. So when you, when you came in, you started it. That is why the numbers shot through the roof and then you created an escapism.

Speaker 2: 45:48

Yeah, our provision expanded massively, you know, not just in terms of dance, but in terms of performing arts, in terms of drama, the tech theatre. It was amazing and, yeah, the numbers just kept growing and growing and then, I think, a lot of the secondary schools cottoned on, you know, to what we were doing. I'm going to tell you one of my proudest moments, this is 2009.

Speaker 2: 46:13

So in 2009, of course, we'd had the inevitable phone call from ofsted. Of course, you know, everyone goes into meltdown and um, and with this particular inspection, they told us that one of the areas they were going to look at was performing arts. So at this point there were a few, we had quite a few teachers in the performing arts area and I wasn't any longer the only performing arts teacher, so there was myself and another teacher then was Svenja, and so I said to Svenja oh, we'll be all right. You know the inspector, it's highly unlikely they'll know anything about dance. You know dance. People don't go on to be Ofsted inspectors. Oh, my God, did that come to bite me on the backside? Because, of course, yes, the Ofsted inspector that was coming to look at performing arts was a dance specialist, so, anyway. So of course, you know, we did our thing and it went really, really well. In fact, it went so well that some weeks later, one of the assistant principals comes into the office one morning waving this letter and basically Ofsted were doing this survey into. It was identifying good practice in the arts and media, but it was particularly looking at the provision of colleges, and they'd found, following the inspection, they'd found two areas of good practice. So one was in level two, music, and the other one was level three, dance, so it was me. So they then sent another inspector back, so I had an inspector in again observing my lessons.

Speaker 2: 48:06

And then some months down the line the college was contacted again and yeah, we was. The college was sent a copy of this massive report, this survey they'd done, and yeah, I was there, I think on page 14 or something like that, and it was one of the lessons that they'd observed and it was a really good example, I think, of technical skills and developing craft. And then I got invited to up to Manchester, to the Lowry that's where they did this whole release of this survey, and there were lots of people, head teachers, all sorts of people invited, and I was invited along to talk to them all. Because you see, I think also what they liked was at that point I'd started the dance company at the college, which it was the qualification we were doing.

Speaker 2: 49:00

But we, to help the students achieve their qualification, we put them in a dance company and we were going out to the secondary schools and we were doing um workshops and doing these sort of 40 minute shows, and I think that's what they're like, because they recognize that the students were building the skills that they needed to go into the industry or to higher education. So, yeah, that was, um, that was one of my proudest moments. So of course, I was gutted to you know leave that really when I was made redundant and then, for a short while, I did secondary education uh-uh, god no I've got to say I've just watched that um the series.

Speaker 2: 49:49

Everyone's talking about adolescence and I can honestly say that depiction of secondary school in that series is one of the most realistic depictions of secondary school. That is essentially what it's like, you know I feel for the team there.

Speaker 2: 50:05

They're just managing behavior. So I did that for a short time and then, strangely enough, an ex-student kelly, I think she's over in thailand now um, she messaged me and said I've seen this job advertised and it's where I am now and it was only for a maternity cover. So, yeah, I went and applied for that and I didn't get it. And because what I didn't know at the time, there was a situation that had developed and actually they were after a course leader. So they didn't offer me the maternity cover because they didn't tell me at the time, but they told me afterwards that they'd have had to have let me go, but they knew that this course leader role was coming up, so they just kept me on this sort of temporary contract which they kept rolling on and rolling on and yeah, so eventually I was there permanently and that's at South Staffs College.

Speaker 2: 51:04

So I'm on the Litchfield campus and I love it there and it's the most fantastic place to work because it's all the creative subjects are there. So we're all on one campus there's music, there's art, design, fashion, photography, games, art, and it's just the most wonderful environment because all the creative students are all together. I love it.

Speaker 1: 51:31

That's how you collab. That's the real world. That's what we collaborate with right when you go in professional world.

Speaker 2: 51:36

And that's what we do now, you see. So we used to do BTEC courses there, and then we drop b-tech and we work with ual, which is university of arts london and we deliver the qualifications and they're fabulous, I've got to say.

Speaker 2: 51:54

They're absolutely fabulous because they're all about creativity and collaboration and they positively encourage us to collaborate and that's what we do, and they also put a lot more trust in teachers. There's quite a rigorous sort of application process you've got to go through be able to deliver their qualifications, because essentially they're university devised qualifications yeah but they put a lot of trust because they let us have that creative input in terms of what we do.

Speaker 2: 52:29

As long as we're meeting the criteria, we can pretty much do what we want to, so it gives us so much creative flexibility. It's brilliant and at the moment we're working on our final show with the students and it's a collaborative project. So we're working with um the games art students, because, get this, dave, we, we use a mocap now. Oh, so we've got um, our games art students are working with the performing art students on motion capture and they also so that they integrate that with the digital backdrops, and we've got lots of beautiful digital backdrops at the games. Our students are creative that involve mocap and music Students are our pit band. We also work well, this is something we're talking about. Next year we might be working with students from one of our other campuses in terms of set design. We work with the media students, photography students. They do lots of our rehearsal photographs. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2: 53:41

There's all sorts of things it sounds really cool it's amazing, it really is amazing, and I love working at the college and I'm a bit older and I'm a bit more worldly wise. We've got the most fantastic principal, and I'm gonna name drop claire Bolivar. She's a complete and utter inspiration. She's a role model, because when I joined the college it wasn't doing so well and she used to be a teacher there and so she's come back now because she's obviously been promoted and her career has just gone up and up and up and she was a principal at Wolverhampton College and she came back to be principal at South Staffs and she's transformed the place and it's such a lovely feeling to go to work there. It's not horrible, and she takes a real interest in performing arts and music because I'm the program leader for both yeah and she always comes and watches our shows.

Speaker 2: 54:44

She supports our shows and she's always interested in what the students are doing and she just comes in whenever she wants because our doors are always open. That's. That's the kind of environment it is. You know, years ago you wouldn't want people to come in and watch, but the doors are open and she just comes in and they all come in and see what we're doing. They're so supportive and I just love it there. It's, it's a pleasure to go to work there and I like now that now I'm a bit older and there's and there's a lot of younger teachers there and I like helping them and I like supporting them because I see what I used to be like. I'm still a stress head, Dave. I've calmed down a little bit. I understand the importance of work-life balance, but I see that the younger teachers and you know they want to do well and they get very stressed out. I feel like if I can just offer a word of encouragement or help them in any way, I do, because that was me once, you know.

Speaker 1: 56:01

I think in the creative industries, you do have to be generous with each other and no one knows everything. Even so, if you're a performer or you're, you're a leader and teacher. It actually is more about what we share and the reality is it's. You can read a book, but when executing it is completely different and I was going to ask you actually what gets you up in the morning. But clearly this role is really important to you and you love it. I can feel that you're that excited and it says something about the place that you work if you feel like this after being there for such a while. You know, and it's pretty, it's pretty cool absolutely.

Speaker 2: 56:39

I don't think you know people fully appreciate range of challenges there are in teaching.

Speaker 1: 56:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:47

Okay, students can be challenging, that's one thing. But when you're in an industry that is forever changing, you have to try and keep up with that.

Speaker 2: 56:57

You have to try and keep up with that. It's like you know, when COVID hit, I mean at that point we were already using Google Classroom, so it was quite straightforward to us to move to remote teaching, you know, and I was doing, like you know, dance lessons in the kitchen and all of that you know. But you see the legacy of that, in some ways it is a positive thing that's come out of COVID. We've all had to be more technological now in our teaching, yeah, and we've had to embrace it. So now you know oh, my goodness, dave, you'd be so proud of me. So my students, they do these reflective, reflective videos which they do on canva, so they don't have to write these laborious, you know, reflective diaries. We set them questions and they talk to the camera like we're doing now, you know, and we've got students creating websites.

Speaker 2: 58:00

I love it Students put their coursework on a website because it's about teaching them the digital skills to help them market themselves in the future.

Speaker 1: 58:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:12

You know, with a motion capture.

Speaker 1: 58:14

That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 58:15

I've had to learn those skills to support the students and to teach the students. Oh, you wouldn't believe our assignment briefs. I do them on canva oh and and oh you know, and we put links, we I embed links in there. I'm sure there'll be people listening to this thinking stupid woman, everyone could you know? 57, yeah, technology. I've never been great with technology, but I've had to embrace it. And that's a difficulty with with teaching you've got to keep up with things but I think that's also about being in the creative industries.

Speaker 1: 58:54

You have to create a personal brand. You know it's not about you being Madonna, but you've got to create a personal brand, so how you, what you sound like, what you look like, the things that you stand for. But also you've got to be adaptive, because it changes so much. You know, my career change has been vast and I've learned so much and you've got to be really adaptive. You know and things which maybe you never thought you would have to do. So okay, naturally we're bossy as your performer, but actually then, being a leader and managing people and those skills, and you've got to be willing to be open-minded and learn these and that's what keeps you in the game, right, and actually hungry to keep growing, because that's what you need, otherwise you won't get up in the morning, so on. So that's the positive thing, without damaging the tone. What's the worst thing about being a teacher?

Speaker 2: 59:44

I think the job's got slightly easier with the growth of AI, because you know we are being encouraged to use AI to help us in our teaching, so that can sort of, you know, lessen the workload Again though at the fair I work, they are very supportive. In that way They've tried to remove a lot of the admin stuff, the unnecessary tasks, but I think that that's something a lot of places are trying to do, because there's so many vacancies still to fill in teaching.

Speaker 1: 1:00:21

I know it's crazy vacancies still to fill in teaching.

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

I know it's crazy, isn't it? It's crazy Some way to go. But you know, when you're talking about upskilling, again, that's something that they do at college. One of the teacher training days we have per year is just dedicated to us upskilling and they encourage the staff to develop their own practice and so a lot of the people that I work with they have their own careers going on. My partner, jeff, you know, he teaches music at the college but he still works as an artist. So you know, in the summer he works with a band, do loads and loads of weddings. He also he writes songs. He works with partner Carl. They're the maybes, so they're always songwriting. But this is what's encouraged by the college, that we do these other things. And they encourage me, of course, to make my tutus, because that's the other thing I keep myself busy with, that I've got into and I think eventually that's what I'll do always a growing, always evolving, and I think again, creative industries allows you to be entrepreneur and you need to be, and it's okay to be.

Speaker 1: 1:01:34

You know, be a great teacher, but create beautiful costumes and tutus and get excited about hair pieces or make music, because ultimately, creativity is what's fueling us and if we're not fueled, we can't be good leaders or good teachers. It's not yeah, it's not like it used to be. You know, remember back in the day my mom would pretty you got one job for life. It doesn't work like that anymore. And for us to be dynamic and good leaders, we need we need to be inquisitive, and I think you know most of the guests always give advice around people being curious and a sponge and your path will find you. You just got to be open-minded to it yeah, absolutely so you've taught.

Speaker 1: 1:02:15

I can't even imagine how many people you've taught now. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Yeah. So do you ever have a moment where you think about all the people's lives that you've impacted? Because, obviously, my career would never have started if it wasn't for you. So, even though I do a different job and I'm not performing now, all that comes from that initial moment of falling in love with dance and because of you. But do you ever go? Oh my god, the amount of people's lives that you get to be part of. And I know it's your birthday and the messages from all your past students are pouring into your page. And what does that feel like, knowing that you've had such a positive impact on people's lives?

Speaker 2: 1:02:58

Well, it's just really satisfying, isn't it? And it's not. I don't get satisfaction just from the students who've gone into the performing arts. You know there's plenty that haven't. But they have, you know, done good things in life and forged other careers.

Speaker 2: 1:03:19

And, of course, you know there's times where you know students have been through some horrendous experiences and I like the fact that we can help. I mean, I know, when I was made redundant I was quite shocked by the amount of young people who lose a parent while they're in education, yeah, and the impact that has. And you know that over the years there's been a number of students who have helped to get them through that, and it was something I did think about, seriously thought about maybe sort of going into. But then this other opportunity came up. So, yeah, that went by the by. It's huge satisfaction. And you know a lot of the students. You know they'll say that they were a nightmare when they were younger, but actually the discipline that comes from dance is what helped them sort of get themselves sorted out. So yeah, it's immensely satisfying that you know to have that input. I think, probably in many ways I get more satisfaction from teaching than I did in terms of performing.

Speaker 1: 1:04:36

But that's a beautiful thing and you maximised your performing element and then you switched it up and you found your love and you know it's like me. I did my bit and then I was like I'm done. I want to go and do something different and I feel I love the things that I do now and the impact and I feel equally as fulfilled doing this. People I'm sure people say it to you all the time do you miss performing? The answer is no. I still perform around the kitchen to piss about, but I don't have the desire to do that. I really love what this is and I think you know you're another example that we get more than one slice of the pie if we want it. We can be the performer, we can be the teacher, we can be the leader.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

We can do it all and nothing's stopping us and the amount of people that you do help is pretty extraordinary and you know, I also know it directly because of me, but you also taught my little sister, who says hi, by the way I spoke to her this morning right, um, but the amount of people and it's interesting as well because I work in the wider industry the amount of times I go somewhere and someone taps me on the shoulder, it's because I've met them, because we went to new college with you together, or they were years after and you've, you've gone.

Speaker 1: 1:05:45

That guy over there, david, I used to teach him, so now they just come up to me and talk to me so literally I can be anywhere and it'd be like hi um, I was taught by Helen and she said to say hello to you, but it is a beautiful thing and you, you are amazing and you are very generous and I'm so grateful for you believing in me and pushing me and, with very little experience off, I went and I did whatever you know, so you've done an amazing thing for me.

Speaker 2: 1:06:12

I still talk about you, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:06:15

Dave.

Speaker 2: 1:06:15

I tell you about you because you know you. You were just such a brilliant example of someone that hadn't necessarily had the opportunities in your younger life to follow this interest in dance and performing. You know, and you'd had a difficult upbringing and you're the reason, and students like you are the reason, why I like teaching in Effie, because very often these are kids like you, dave. You know, for whatever reason, they've not had the opportunities when they were younger. Well, just because you've not had those opportunities doesn't mean you can't or you shouldn't have the chance to fulfil your dream and follow what you want to do. So that's why I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:05

And I took it and I ran with it.

Speaker 2: 1:07:09

I was like come on, helen, we're going.

Speaker 1: 1:07:11

Come on, speed up, we're going. I want to go now, so we're nearly at the end of this conversation, but the last two things I often ask my guests are there any myths, misconceptions or pet peeves you want to address right here, right now about the industry? So it's all about performing or teaching anything that gets right on your nerves that you want to deal with.

Speaker 2: 1:07:34

So One of the things I've noticed. So my daughter she's 17, she dances I get the pleasure of teaching her at college goes to dance school. So at her dance school she does competitions and she does these traditional dance festivals and I used to do those as well and they're great because they really help to develop your performance skills and they help to, you know, develop your ability to communicate and engage with an audience and you get to do all these different styles and it's wonderful. But lately, over the last couple of years, I've started to see in a lot of the dance competitions they've brought in a contemporary dance section which never used to be there. But I feel like some of the mums at her dance school they laugh when it's a contemporary dance section, because they just sit and watch me and watch my reaction, because I kind of have to sit on my hands and I have to think you know, don't shout out, don't do this expression on your face, because, oh, my goodness, I can see this massive influence coming over here from that American programme Dance Moms.

Speaker 1: 1:08:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:58

And you see, a lot of the dance schools now think that that's what contemporary dance is. That's stuff they see. See the kids performing on Dance Moms. And it isn't. It isn't. It's like this awful mix of lyrical bit of contemporary and acro and they're passing it off as contemporary and it's driving me insane. And I sit there at the competitions. I'm like that's not contemporary, you know, and the mums are laughing at me. And so my, my daughter's solo. I've choreographed it because obviously the dance teacher taught me, so she knows I, you know it's going to be okay and and I sit there and I think, well, that is contemporary. But yeah, that annoys me.

Speaker 2: 1:09:43

I've got to say see a lot of these american style dance competitions over here, and we went to one earlier in the year, I took lily to one and, um, I can see why they're popular. Yeah, there is a lovely feeling there and they are very supportive. But I find it really hard to deal with when you're in this sort of venue. There's a theater, you're on, the kids are on the stage and they're all shouting out from the audience go britney. And I'm thinking that's not how you behave in the theatre, you know. So that's a bit weird. But yeah, it's contemporary and you see, contemporary now is really popular. Yeah, to people like matthew bourne, you know, and and so it should be, because he's made it more accessible for everybody. But I, I'm just seeing this awful, awful mix of lyrical modern jazz, acro and a few contemporary moves, and they're packaging that up as contemporary dance. No, sorry, it isn't.

Speaker 1: 1:11:00

That is going to be my little clip. So I ask every guest at the end to make a cultural confession. So not to get yourself into trouble, necessarily, but it could be a secret, a guilty pleasure, something that someone doesn't know about you. What would you like to confess to helen, right here, right now?

Speaker 2: 1:11:20

okay, so I've got one secret and then I've got one guilty pleasure. So my seat, my secret, is he's back in new college. So we used to have phones in the offices because all the staff were in different offices and each office had a phone. And I absolutely love family guy, I love stewie, and one christmas someone bought me this um key ring that's got all stewie's um phrases on there, like sort of damn you vile woman, and all these like. So I used to phone people up at college and then press one of them and I can remember there was a technician, a music technician, I think her name was Laura. So she was in the Hayward Arts Centre where all the music staff and the music courses were. Oh, she used to get really wound up and I used to do it all the more. So I used to just phone up and then you'd hear this Stewie say damn you far woman. And I could hear her going who is it? That was me.

Speaker 1: 1:12:36

Oh, there you go.

Speaker 2: 1:12:37

My guilty pleasure is I'm a massive Formula One fan.

Speaker 1: 1:12:43

So am I.

Speaker 2: 1:12:46

So five o'clock today I'll be there.

Speaker 1: 1:12:48

I love it.

Speaker 2: 1:12:50

I absolutely love Formula One and my favourite driver of all time, who I love, is Fernando Alonso.

Speaker 1: 1:12:59

He's got a chip on his shoulder, but I do love him.

Speaker 2: 1:13:02

I love him. I love him. If anybody is listening to this that knows him, please tell him. I love him. I can just. I'll be willing to jump on it just playing to see him.

Speaker 1: 1:13:16

I just love him well, we should definitely do an f1 date. We should go and watch.

Speaker 2: 1:13:23

Yeah, I went in 2008. I went to Silverstone, it's so expensive. I know, I know the reason I remember going then was because I was pregnant with Lily and, yeah, I went to Formula One. Oh, I absolutely love it, love it.

Speaker 1: 1:13:41

See, we're interesting characters, People. When they ask me what I'm into, I'm like I really like Formula One. They're like, no, I'm like yeah, I love it. It's interesting because I used to hate it. I remember like when I was younger, particularly on a Sunday, my dad would have it and all I could hear was wing, wing. It was to the point where I was like I'd leave the house, but then something happened.

Speaker 2: 1:14:06

maybe like I hit midlife and had a breakdown and now I'm obsessed with it.

Speaker 1: 1:14:09

Yeah, but it's, it's a show, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

it's theatrics and technique I love it it's beautiful yeah, it's exciting, you know, it's just yeah, it's just exciting. And and the skill of those drivers. And you know I've got to say so. This week, obviously we've broke up from college and we've got students. You know, I know they're tired, but they're sort of saying, oh, I'm not feeling great and I'm tired, and blah, blah, blah. And then last weekend there's like this new driver isn't there for Mercedes, he's 18,. New driver isn't there for Mercedes, he's 18,. Kimi Antonelli, yeah, he's 18. So he's juggling a Formula One career. He's driving for one of the biggest teams ever. You know he's got to deal with all the media surrounding F1. He's travelling all over the world and he's juggling this with his school exams. And I was telling my students. I said so don't tell me you're tired.

Speaker 1: 1:15:07

There's 24 hours in a day. Get on with it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:10

He's right into perspective. He's 18. He's not even got a licence to drive in his country, so don't tell me you're tired Taskmaster, aren't you? That's what you are. I am Helen.

Speaker 1: 1:15:22

Helen, thank you so much for doing this. It's been a beautiful conversation. We could talk for hours. You're my special person. Thank you for everything and I'm sure we're going to have another conversation at some point. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:15:37

Dave, I've got to say I am so unbelievably proud of you. I'm proud of everything that you've achieved thank you you're just.

Speaker 1: 1:15:48

You are an inspiration, so just keep doing what you're doing I'm gonna keep working hard and I'll always come and speak to your students and tell them how fabulous you are they need that sometimes and I'm horrible.

Speaker 1: 1:16:05

Thank you so much. See you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Before the Applause. Please do tell everyone about this podcast and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms by searching at Before Applause. If you've got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, want to recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we'd love to hear from you. You can direct message us on any of our social accounts or email studio at beforetheapplauspodcom.